Discussion:
Sunglass by Will Dockery
(too old to reply)
Will Dockery
2004-06-12 17:27:42 UTC
Permalink
"Renay St. James" wrote:

> > > Sunglass.
> > >
> > > This battered old shell
> > > looks like a death mask.
> > >
> > > Lucky or not I shall wear it
> > > as I walk into Phenix City.
> > > Though I cheated in my gambling
> > > I wound up broke anyway.
> > >
> > > And I come, and I pay
> > > the zombie whores and walking dead.
> > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > >
> > > One more trip over that bridge
> > > to the kissing booth.
> > > Where there's smoke there may be fire
> > > and this time I got burned.
> > >
> > > I walk this beach at midnight
> > > like a zen dharma beach bum.
> > > And I am saved, and I turn.
> > >
> > > I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
> > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > >
> > > -Will Dockery (c)2003

> no, Will, it's the same old failure.

Too bad, I'd rather work on new failures. To be posted tonight, when I return.

> you're certainly getting into this persecution fantasy.

"Getting into it" is not how I'd describe it. But I *will* defend myself.

> get over yourself.

Why?

if you were important enough to be
> "driven off the newsgroup" you prolly wouldn't be on
> the newsgroup in the first place.
>
> Renay

At least you didn't respond to the "ban Will Dockery" thread. Tell JRS hello.
Renay St. James
2004-06-12 17:33:13 UTC
Permalink
"Will Dockery" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:***@posting.google.com...
> "Renay St. James" wrote:
>
> > > > Sunglass.
> > > >
> > > > This battered old shell
> > > > looks like a death mask.
> > > >
> > > > Lucky or not I shall wear it
> > > > as I walk into Phenix City.
> > > > Though I cheated in my gambling
> > > > I wound up broke anyway.
> > > >
> > > > And I come, and I pay
> > > > the zombie whores and walking dead.
> > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > >
> > > > One more trip over that bridge
> > > > to the kissing booth.
> > > > Where there's smoke there may be fire
> > > > and this time I got burned.
> > > >
> > > > I walk this beach at midnight
> > > > like a zen dharma beach bum.
> > > > And I am saved, and I turn.
> > > >
> > > > I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
> > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > >
> > > > -Will Dockery (c)2003
>
> > no, Will, it's the same old failure.
>
> Too bad, I'd rather work on new failures. To be posted tonight, when I
return.

I'm sure you can write 8 or 9 really outstanding poems
in just a few hours. cuz you know, you're so damn good at it.
>
> > you're certainly getting into this persecution fantasy.
>
> "Getting into it" is not how I'd describe it. But I *will* defend myself.

against WHAT? people who try to pat you on the head
like all you are is a photograph without a brain? mindless
insults about sucking up and sucking cock? I see.
>
> > get over yourself.
>
> Why?
>
> if you were important enough to be
> > "driven off the newsgroup" you prolly wouldn't be on
> > the newsgroup in the first place.
> >
> > Renay
>
> At least you didn't respond to the "ban Will Dockery" thread. Tell JRS
hello.

tell him yourself. I'm sure he's been waiting to hear from you.

Renay
Will Dockery
2004-06-13 16:36:26 UTC
Permalink
"Renay St. James" <***@prettyprettyprincess.com> wrote

> > > > > Sunglass.
> > > > >
> > > > > This battered old shell
> > > > > looks like a death mask.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lucky or not I shall wear it
> > > > > as I walk into Phenix City.
> > > > > Though I cheated in my gambling
> > > > > I wound up broke anyway.
> > > > >
> > > > > And I come, and I pay
> > > > > the zombie whores and walking dead.
> > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > >
> > > > > One more trip over that bridge
> > > > > to the kissing booth.
> > > > > Where there's smoke there may be fire
> > > > > and this time I got burned.
> > > > >
> > > > > I walk this beach at midnight
> > > > > like a zen dharma beach bum.
> > > > > And I am saved, and I turn.
> > > > >
> > > > > I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
> > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Will Dockery (c)2003

> > "Getting into it" is not how I'd describe it. But I *will* defend myself.
>
> against WHAT? people who try to pat you on the head
> like all you are is a photograph without a brain? mindless
> insults about sucking up and sucking cock? I see.

Yeah, on this sober Sunday I feel I went too far with the "cock
sucking" comments to JJWeb [Blue]. I keep reminding myself to take it
easy and not get too deep in the flame games stuff... I'll track him
down and give him an apology.

On this sober Sunday, I realise that I jumped in too far, in ager,
because of all the comments here, his hit home closest, hit a nerve,
so to speak.

Money *has* always been tight, I've never really made what might be
considered "great" money, decent jobs over the years, for Shadowville,
but nothing spectacular. And certainly not from poetry.

Add to that the *fact* that outside of Shadowville [which even here I
can't, or won't, make any noticable $$$ from the words/music/art]
relatively few people know me as a poet... and here, in many quarters,
I'm more infamous than famous... the underground types all know me,
artists, musicians, as well as the *sleazier* elements, and strangely,
the "academic" types never jeer or heckle me, but they probably like
me personally well enough to ignore my poems when I flub up some
verses... and point out "good" lines... some probably admire my rough
edged, "self taught" style:

I *did* make it this far, as short a distance it arguably is, against
pretty much impossible odds. Grade and High School here in the 1970s
for whatever reason seemed intent on smashing this "poetry" idea I
had, for probably exactly the reasons most of you hate me: I did it on
my own, and didn't [don't] tend to listen to "sage advice"... there's
no "literary" background in my family, really, and my mother and
uncles [mother's side] were the first people in my family to go to
college, though I suppose some Dockerys or Whitleys [or Lawsons or
Darlymples] may have attended college hundreds of years ago in the
"old country"... the Creek, Cherokee, Choctaw, et cetera, of course,
had a very different system of higher learning... both sides of my
family are very typical Southern families, comfortable, but never
"rich".

And it's true I've dropped out of college... *three* times. It's true
that I never had that "drive" to amass grand amounts of money and
material things... the conceit [sic?] is: I'm a poet, and not
concerned with material things. I make enough money to "get by"... the
wives and countless women I've loved and lost would agree more with
the judgement of the newsgroup trolls: I'm a lazy sod.

I like to brag that one of the great things about being a "povert
stricken poet" is that I know a woman loves me for *me*, not my money.
*grin*

But, yeah, it hurts when they give up and drift away. Sometimes due to
"incredible" hardships I put them through, lack of money, security, et
cetera, sometimes because I'd rather run around with my cronies of the
season, playing at being a poet, getting pats on the back for being
"Will Dockery, outlaw poet of Shadowville", sometimes because I get
blinded by the cheap thrills of playing the hard drinking groupie
shagger, and time after time expect the "little lady" to be sitting
happily at home, waiting for "Neal Cassady" to drive up and light up
her life... although the power's turned off and she might be sitting
by a fireplace, reading his poetry by candle light. A romantic notion,
unless you have *no choice*, Dark Queen and I both agreed, some years
after we gave it up. She went back home to her mother, and I went off
to "fame" with a group of Phish/Deadheads...

Anyhow, before I went off into this Kerouac chapter, on this Sober
Sunday, is that yes, yes, yes, after years of flaming and
grandstanding, I admit that Renay, Colin, Tom, and several others here
are right in much of what they write: my poetry could *at least* stand
some rewrite, some "distance". My Kerouac et al "never change a word"
"philosophy" boils down, at least partially, to being a lazy sod.
Content to dash out some "poems" and rely on performance and flashy
"beatnik" presentation to score.

And that doesn't go over like Flint on a text based medium, with
people that *have* sweated and studied the "craft".

Anyhow, this began as an apology to Blue [JJWeb] for losing my temper
at the blunt points he made, points that actually are intended to help
me. Calling him a "cocksucker" was low... and hypocritically, I'd
probably blast a troll with high handed insults if *they* sank to that
level. Cool as I *am*, there's obviously a deep undercurrent of
homophobia [or *shudder* is it lantent homosexuality?] in that knee
jerk insult.

And I'm surprised that nobody's called me on my strange mixture of
goddess worship and misogyny. Nita Gale
<http://midgetbigot.easyjournal.com/> was the *only* person who had
the balls to call me on that, she used to love me, but obviously gave
up on me years ago, as well.

So, I'm seriously considering consulting Colin on the idea of giving
me some poetry tutorial, as he [maybe joking, but interesting, anyhow]
wrote on one of these threads: "The difference between [poetry
craftwork] and a bad acid trip." I really want to learn the
difference, since quite a bit of LSD, as well as weed and of course
booze has gone down the hatch over the years... though lately it's
almost always booze--- which for years I always said it was impossible
for me to write [even my meager poetry] while drunk.

Ah, well, enough for now... it's time to go out and play "pizza
delivery technician" and my current absurd "advertising exectutive"
gig [Hey! I *do* get out there and meet, greet, and get the phones
ringing... whatever I'm doing with the flyers and promotion is selling
pizza like never before. Pizza Roma has hired coupon passers for 15
years, and Ben swears he's *never* had results like those I bring...
sorry, the insecurity blleds through, who but *Will Dockery* would
"brag" before, as Google announces, "potentially millions of readers"
about being a pizza boy/coupon passer... *but* Shadowville is the "big
fish small pond" archtype in a classic sense... could I make it in New
York, Hollywood? I did well enough in Atlanta, but honestly Atlanta is
pretty much just an overgrown Shadowville.][Get this, it's very easy
to swell with pride when I hear things like the other day outside
Pizza Roma as I stood with Pasko, Ben, Brando, Carol, and Woodstock
Eddy having a joint, and i said, "Well my loves, it's off to my
*advertising executive* coupon passing gig..." and Carol corrected me:
"Your a poet." and of course I agreed.] and eventually I'll have to,
as Blue pointed out: put up or shut up, or remain Poet Lawrry-ette of
Shadowville.

I still think JRSherman's wrong, though: it *is* poetry.
Will
ggamble
2004-06-13 17:43:53 UTC
Permalink
On 13 Jun 2004 09:36:26 -0700, ***@yahoo.com (Will Dockery)
wrote:

>I *did* make it this far, as short a distance it arguably is, against
>pretty much impossible odds. Grade and High School here in the 1970s
>for whatever reason seemed intent on smashing this "poetry" idea I
>had, for probably exactly the reasons most of you hate me: I did it on
>my own, and didn't [don't] tend to listen to "sage advice"...


Like most of your so-called poetry, this trainwreck of a
self-involved. confessional sentence attempt makes no sense.

I think it means that you've had this egocentric, delusional
*idea* that you were a *poet* for a long, long time and you're used to
people laughing at you about it. Therefore, your defense mechanisms
are well-devoloped, and your responses codified:

You tell everyone who tells you that you need to *work* at this
*poetry thing that they're *full of shit* because *your (sic) a poet*,
and therefore, your *sacred emanations* are divine pearls of
consciousness plucked from the flowing river of Maya.

I've seen this pantomime in all ages of novice writers.
Some people grow out of it early on, some never do.
I personally believe that it's better to grow out of it early on.

And there's this fascination with the Beats and Buk, and anyone who
appears is if the whole writing thing is just a drunken frat kegger.
I'll bet it would freak you out to know how many times Jack revised
*On the Road*.


Anyway, I do realize that (your sudden display of humility
notwithstanding) this is supposed to be All About You, but:

I (me mine) went to *Grade and High School* in Atlanta in the 1970's
and came away with a lifelong love of Dylan Thomas, WCW, Eliot
and Tennessee Williams;
where the fuck did you go to school?

That's a rhetorical question, I don't really need to know.

jesus fuck,
what if we went to the same school?
Will Dockery
2013-05-30 16:46:19 UTC
Permalink
"George Dance" <***@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:0b49cbd7-c75d-42d9-972a-***@googlegroups.com...
On Thursday, January 10, 2013 12:05:29 PM UTC-5, Hieronymous House wrote:
> On Jan 9, 3:11 pm, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, June 13, 2004 1:43:53 PM UTC-4, ggamble wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > I (me mine) went to *Grade and High School* in Atlanta in the 1970's
> > > and came away with a lifelong love of Dylan Thomas, WCW, Eliot
> > > and Tennessee Williams;
>
> > > where the fuck did you go to school?
>
> > > jesus fuck,
> > > what if we went to the same school?
>
> > There's the original statement from ggamble that he spent his youth in
> > Georgia... but of course with ggamble being such a known liar, this too
> > could just be another lie.
>
> Omissions noted.
>
>
> ggamble Jun 13 2004, 12:43 pm
>
> On 13 Jun 2004 09:36:26 -0700, ***@yahoo.com (Will Dockery)
> wrote:
>
> >I *did* make it this far, as short a distance it arguably is, against
> >pretty much impossible odds. Grade and High School here in the 1970s
> >for whatever reason seemed intent on smashing this "poetry" idea I
> >had, for probably exactly the reasons most of you hate me: I did it on
> >my own, and didn't [don't] tend to listen to "sage advice"...
>
> Like most of your so-called poetry, this trainwreck of a
> self-involved. confessional sentence attempt makes no sense.
> I think it means that you've had this egocentric, delusional
> *idea* that you were a *poet* for a long, long time and you're used
> to
> people laughing at you about it. Therefore, your defense mechanisms
> are well-devoloped, and your responses codified:
>
> You tell everyone who tells you that you need to *work* at this
> *poetry thing that they're *full of shit* because *your (sic) a
> poet*,
>
> and therefore, your *sacred emanations* are divine pearls of
> consciousness plucked from the flowing river of Maya.
>
> I've seen this pantomime in all ages of novice writers.
> Some people grow out of it early on, some never do.
> I personally believe that it's better to grow out of it early on.
>
> And there's this fascination with the Beats and Buk, and anyone who
> appears is if the whole writing thing is just a drunken frat kegger.
>
> I'll bet it would freak you out to know how many times Jack revised> *On
> the Road*.
>

(FWIW, Kerouac publicly claimed to have written the novel in three weeks.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzCF6hgEfto

> Anyway, I do realize that (your sudden display of humility
> notwithstanding) this is supposed to be All About You, but:
> I (me mine) went to *Grade and High School* in Atlanta in the 1970's
> and came away with a lifelong love of Dylan Thomas, WCW, Eliot
> and Tennessee Williams; > where the fuck did you go to school?
>
> That's a rhetorical question, I don't really need to know.
>
> jesus fuck,
>
> what if we went to the same school?

So the context of the remark was that Gary was bragging about his superior
knowledge, and lifelong love, of poetry and poetics, which he attributeses
to having attended *Grade and High School*.

In the heart of the Deep South... Atlanta.

--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & The Shadowville All-Stars:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Renay St. James
2004-06-13 18:14:12 UTC
Permalink
"Will Dockery" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:***@posting.google.com...
> "Renay St. James" <***@prettyprettyprincess.com> wrote
>
> > > > > > Sunglass.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This battered old shell
> > > > > > looks like a death mask.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lucky or not I shall wear it
> > > > > > as I walk into Phenix City.
> > > > > > Though I cheated in my gambling
> > > > > > I wound up broke anyway.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And I come, and I pay
> > > > > > the zombie whores and walking dead.
> > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One more trip over that bridge
> > > > > > to the kissing booth.
> > > > > > Where there's smoke there may be fire
> > > > > > and this time I got burned.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I walk this beach at midnight
> > > > > > like a zen dharma beach bum.
> > > > > > And I am saved, and I turn.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
> > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Will Dockery (c)2003
>
> > > "Getting into it" is not how I'd describe it. But I *will* defend
myself.
> >
> > against WHAT? people who try to pat you on the head
> > like all you are is a photograph without a brain? mindless
> > insults about sucking up and sucking cock? I see.
>
> Yeah, on this sober Sunday I feel I went too far with the "cock
> sucking" comments to JJWeb [Blue]. I keep reminding myself to take it
> easy and not get too deep in the flame games stuff... I'll track him
> down and give him an apology.

you're gonna apologize to him for saying I suck his cock?
fuck you, Will.

Renay


> On this sober Sunday, I realise that I jumped in too far, in ager,
> because of all the comments here, his hit home closest, hit a nerve,
> so to speak.
>
> Money *has* always been tight, I've never really made what might be
> considered "great" money, decent jobs over the years, for Shadowville,
> but nothing spectacular. And certainly not from poetry.
>
> Add to that the *fact* that outside of Shadowville [which even here I
> can't, or won't, make any noticable $$$ from the words/music/art]
> relatively few people know me as a poet... and here, in many quarters,
> I'm more infamous than famous... the underground types all know me,
> artists, musicians, as well as the *sleazier* elements, and strangely,
> the "academic" types never jeer or heckle me, but they probably like
> me personally well enough to ignore my poems when I flub up some
> verses... and point out "good" lines... some probably admire my rough
> edged, "self taught" style:
>
> I *did* make it this far, as short a distance it arguably is, against
> pretty much impossible odds. Grade and High School here in the 1970s
> for whatever reason seemed intent on smashing this "poetry" idea I
> had, for probably exactly the reasons most of you hate me: I did it on
> my own, and didn't [don't] tend to listen to "sage advice"... there's
> no "literary" background in my family, really, and my mother and
> uncles [mother's side] were the first people in my family to go to
> college, though I suppose some Dockerys or Whitleys [or Lawsons or
> Darlymples] may have attended college hundreds of years ago in the
> "old country"... the Creek, Cherokee, Choctaw, et cetera, of course,
> had a very different system of higher learning... both sides of my
> family are very typical Southern families, comfortable, but never
> "rich".
>
> And it's true I've dropped out of college... *three* times. It's true
> that I never had that "drive" to amass grand amounts of money and
> material things... the conceit [sic?] is: I'm a poet, and not
> concerned with material things. I make enough money to "get by"... the
> wives and countless women I've loved and lost would agree more with
> the judgement of the newsgroup trolls: I'm a lazy sod.
>
> I like to brag that one of the great things about being a "povert
> stricken poet" is that I know a woman loves me for *me*, not my money.
> *grin*
>
> But, yeah, it hurts when they give up and drift away. Sometimes due to
> "incredible" hardships I put them through, lack of money, security, et
> cetera, sometimes because I'd rather run around with my cronies of the
> season, playing at being a poet, getting pats on the back for being
> "Will Dockery, outlaw poet of Shadowville", sometimes because I get
> blinded by the cheap thrills of playing the hard drinking groupie
> shagger, and time after time expect the "little lady" to be sitting
> happily at home, waiting for "Neal Cassady" to drive up and light up
> her life... although the power's turned off and she might be sitting
> by a fireplace, reading his poetry by candle light. A romantic notion,
> unless you have *no choice*, Dark Queen and I both agreed, some years
> after we gave it up. She went back home to her mother, and I went off
> to "fame" with a group of Phish/Deadheads...
>
> Anyhow, before I went off into this Kerouac chapter, on this Sober
> Sunday, is that yes, yes, yes, after years of flaming and
> grandstanding, I admit that Renay, Colin, Tom, and several others here
> are right in much of what they write: my poetry could *at least* stand
> some rewrite, some "distance". My Kerouac et al "never change a word"
> "philosophy" boils down, at least partially, to being a lazy sod.
> Content to dash out some "poems" and rely on performance and flashy
> "beatnik" presentation to score.
>
> And that doesn't go over like Flint on a text based medium, with
> people that *have* sweated and studied the "craft".
>
> Anyhow, this began as an apology to Blue [JJWeb] for losing my temper
> at the blunt points he made, points that actually are intended to help
> me. Calling him a "cocksucker" was low... and hypocritically, I'd
> probably blast a troll with high handed insults if *they* sank to that
> level. Cool as I *am*, there's obviously a deep undercurrent of
> homophobia [or *shudder* is it lantent homosexuality?] in that knee
> jerk insult.
>
> And I'm surprised that nobody's called me on my strange mixture of
> goddess worship and misogyny. Nita Gale
> <http://midgetbigot.easyjournal.com/> was the *only* person who had
> the balls to call me on that, she used to love me, but obviously gave
> up on me years ago, as well.
>
> So, I'm seriously considering consulting Colin on the idea of giving
> me some poetry tutorial, as he [maybe joking, but interesting, anyhow]
> wrote on one of these threads: "The difference between [poetry
> craftwork] and a bad acid trip." I really want to learn the
> difference, since quite a bit of LSD, as well as weed and of course
> booze has gone down the hatch over the years... though lately it's
> almost always booze--- which for years I always said it was impossible
> for me to write [even my meager poetry] while drunk.
>
> Ah, well, enough for now... it's time to go out and play "pizza
> delivery technician" and my current absurd "advertising exectutive"
> gig [Hey! I *do* get out there and meet, greet, and get the phones
> ringing... whatever I'm doing with the flyers and promotion is selling
> pizza like never before. Pizza Roma has hired coupon passers for 15
> years, and Ben swears he's *never* had results like those I bring...
> sorry, the insecurity blleds through, who but *Will Dockery* would
> "brag" before, as Google announces, "potentially millions of readers"
> about being a pizza boy/coupon passer... *but* Shadowville is the "big
> fish small pond" archtype in a classic sense... could I make it in New
> York, Hollywood? I did well enough in Atlanta, but honestly Atlanta is
> pretty much just an overgrown Shadowville.][Get this, it's very easy
> to swell with pride when I hear things like the other day outside
> Pizza Roma as I stood with Pasko, Ben, Brando, Carol, and Woodstock
> Eddy having a joint, and i said, "Well my loves, it's off to my
> *advertising executive* coupon passing gig..." and Carol corrected me:
> "Your a poet." and of course I agreed.] and eventually I'll have to,
> as Blue pointed out: put up or shut up, or remain Poet Lawrry-ette of
> Shadowville.
>
> I still think JRSherman's wrong, though: it *is* poetry.
> Will
Tom Bishop
2004-06-13 19:00:09 UTC
Permalink
"Renay St. James", remarked:
>
> "Will Dockery" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:***@posting.google.com...
> > "Renay St. James" <***@prettyprettyprincess.com> wrote
> >
> > > > > > > Sunglass.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This battered old shell
> > > > > > > looks like a death mask.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Lucky or not I shall wear it
> > > > > > > as I walk into Phenix City.
> > > > > > > Though I cheated in my gambling
> > > > > > > I wound up broke anyway.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And I come, and I pay
> > > > > > > the zombie whores and walking dead.
> > > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > One more trip over that bridge
> > > > > > > to the kissing booth.
> > > > > > > Where there's smoke there may be fire
> > > > > > > and this time I got burned.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I walk this beach at midnight
> > > > > > > like a zen dharma beach bum.
> > > > > > > And I am saved, and I turn.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
> > > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Will Dockery (c)2003
> >
> > > > "Getting into it" is not how I'd describe it. But I *will* defend
> myself.
> > >
> > > against WHAT? people who try to pat you on the head
> > > like all you are is a photograph without a brain? mindless
> > > insults about sucking up and sucking cock? I see.
> >
> > Yeah, on this sober Sunday I feel I went too far with the "cock
> > sucking" comments to JJWeb [Blue]. I keep reminding myself to take it
> > easy and not get too deep in the flame games stuff... I'll track him
> > down and give him an apology.
>
> you're gonna apologize to him for saying I suck his cock?
> fuck you, Will.


Has it cum to that?



>
> Renay
>
>
> > On this sober Sunday, I realise that I jumped in too far, in ager,
> > because of all the comments here, his hit home closest, hit a nerve,
> > so to speak.
> >
> > Money *has* always been tight, I've never really made what might be
> > considered "great" money, decent jobs over the years, for Shadowville,
> > but nothing spectacular. And certainly not from poetry.
> >
> > Add to that the *fact* that outside of Shadowville [which even here I
> > can't, or won't, make any noticable $$$ from the words/music/art]
> > relatively few people know me as a poet... and here, in many quarters,
> > I'm more infamous than famous... the underground types all know me,
> > artists, musicians, as well as the *sleazier* elements, and strangely,
> > the "academic" types never jeer or heckle me, but they probably like
> > me personally well enough to ignore my poems when I flub up some
> > verses... and point out "good" lines... some probably admire my rough
> > edged, "self taught" style:
> >
> > I *did* make it this far, as short a distance it arguably is, against
> > pretty much impossible odds. Grade and High School here in the 1970s
> > for whatever reason seemed intent on smashing this "poetry" idea I
> > had, for probably exactly the reasons most of you hate me: I did it on
> > my own, and didn't [don't] tend to listen to "sage advice"... there's
> > no "literary" background in my family, really, and my mother and
> > uncles [mother's side] were the first people in my family to go to
> > college, though I suppose some Dockerys or Whitleys [or Lawsons or
> > Darlymples] may have attended college hundreds of years ago in the
> > "old country"... the Creek, Cherokee, Choctaw, et cetera, of course,
> > had a very different system of higher learning... both sides of my
> > family are very typical Southern families, comfortable, but never
> > "rich".
> >
> > And it's true I've dropped out of college... *three* times. It's true
> > that I never had that "drive" to amass grand amounts of money and
> > material things... the conceit [sic?] is: I'm a poet, and not
> > concerned with material things. I make enough money to "get by"... the
> > wives and countless women I've loved and lost would agree more with
> > the judgement of the newsgroup trolls: I'm a lazy sod.
> >
> > I like to brag that one of the great things about being a "povert
> > stricken poet" is that I know a woman loves me for *me*, not my money.
> > *grin*
> >
> > But, yeah, it hurts when they give up and drift away. Sometimes due to
> > "incredible" hardships I put them through, lack of money, security, et
> > cetera, sometimes because I'd rather run around with my cronies of the
> > season, playing at being a poet, getting pats on the back for being
> > "Will Dockery, outlaw poet of Shadowville", sometimes because I get
> > blinded by the cheap thrills of playing the hard drinking groupie
> > shagger, and time after time expect the "little lady" to be sitting
> > happily at home, waiting for "Neal Cassady" to drive up and light up
> > her life... although the power's turned off and she might be sitting
> > by a fireplace, reading his poetry by candle light. A romantic notion,
> > unless you have *no choice*, Dark Queen and I both agreed, some years
> > after we gave it up. She went back home to her mother, and I went off
> > to "fame" with a group of Phish/Deadheads...
> >
> > Anyhow, before I went off into this Kerouac chapter, on this Sober
> > Sunday, is that yes, yes, yes, after years of flaming and
> > grandstanding, I admit that Renay, Colin, Tom, and several others here
> > are right in much of what they write: my poetry could *at least* stand
> > some rewrite, some "distance". My Kerouac et al "never change a word"
> > "philosophy" boils down, at least partially, to being a lazy sod.
> > Content to dash out some "poems" and rely on performance and flashy
> > "beatnik" presentation to score.
> >
> > And that doesn't go over like Flint on a text based medium, with
> > people that *have* sweated and studied the "craft".
> >
> > Anyhow, this began as an apology to Blue [JJWeb] for losing my temper
> > at the blunt points he made, points that actually are intended to help
> > me. Calling him a "cocksucker" was low... and hypocritically, I'd
> > probably blast a troll with high handed insults if *they* sank to that
> > level. Cool as I *am*, there's obviously a deep undercurrent of
> > homophobia [or *shudder* is it lantent homosexuality?] in that knee
> > jerk insult.
> >
> > And I'm surprised that nobody's called me on my strange mixture of
> > goddess worship and misogyny. Nita Gale
> > <http://midgetbigot.easyjournal.com/> was the *only* person who had
> > the balls to call me on that, she used to love me, but obviously gave
> > up on me years ago, as well.
> >
> > So, I'm seriously considering consulting Colin on the idea of giving
> > me some poetry tutorial, as he [maybe joking, but interesting, anyhow]
> > wrote on one of these threads: "The difference between [poetry
> > craftwork] and a bad acid trip." I really want to learn the
> > difference, since quite a bit of LSD, as well as weed and of course
> > booze has gone down the hatch over the years... though lately it's
> > almost always booze--- which for years I always said it was impossible
> > for me to write [even my meager poetry] while drunk.
> >
> > Ah, well, enough for now... it's time to go out and play "pizza
> > delivery technician" and my current absurd "advertising exectutive"
> > gig [Hey! I *do* get out there and meet, greet, and get the phones
> > ringing... whatever I'm doing with the flyers and promotion is selling
> > pizza like never before. Pizza Roma has hired coupon passers for 15
> > years, and Ben swears he's *never* had results like those I bring...
> > sorry, the insecurity blleds through, who but *Will Dockery* would
> > "brag" before, as Google announces, "potentially millions of readers"
> > about being a pizza boy/coupon passer... *but* Shadowville is the "big
> > fish small pond" archtype in a classic sense... could I make it in New
> > York, Hollywood? I did well enough in Atlanta, but honestly Atlanta is
> > pretty much just an overgrown Shadowville.][Get this, it's very easy
> > to swell with pride when I hear things like the other day outside
> > Pizza Roma as I stood with Pasko, Ben, Brando, Carol, and Woodstock
> > Eddy having a joint, and i said, "Well my loves, it's off to my
> > *advertising executive* coupon passing gig..." and Carol corrected me:
> > "Your a poet." and of course I agreed.] and eventually I'll have to,
> > as Blue pointed out: put up or shut up, or remain Poet Lawrry-ette of
> > Shadowville.
> >
> > I still think JRSherman's wrong, though: it *is* poetry.
> > Will
>
>
>
Tom Bishop
2004-06-13 18:22:06 UTC
Permalink
"Will Dockery", remarked:
> "Renay St. James" <***@prettyprettyprincess.com> wrote
>
> > > > > > Sunglass.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This battered old shell
> > > > > > looks like a death mask.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lucky or not I shall wear it
> > > > > > as I walk into Phenix City.
> > > > > > Though I cheated in my gambling
> > > > > > I wound up broke anyway.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And I come, and I pay
> > > > > > the zombie whores and walking dead.
> > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One more trip over that bridge
> > > > > > to the kissing booth.
> > > > > > Where there's smoke there may be fire
> > > > > > and this time I got burned.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I walk this beach at midnight
> > > > > > like a zen dharma beach bum.
> > > > > > And I am saved, and I turn.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
> > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Will Dockery (c)2003
>
> > > "Getting into it" is not how I'd describe it. But I *will* defend myself.
> >
> > against WHAT? people who try to pat you on the head
> > like all you are is a photograph without a brain? mindless
> > insults about sucking up and sucking cock? I see.
>
> Yeah, on this sober Sunday I feel I went too far with the "cock
> sucking" comments to JJWeb [Blue]. I keep reminding myself to take it
> easy and not get too deep in the flame games stuff... I'll track him
> down and give him an apology.

Your textual insult isn't criminal.

But I contend that mikey's gay dipiction and his posting it publicly
constitutes defamation. Did you happen to save the animation?

Anyone?

>
> On this sober Sunday, I realise that I jumped in too far, in ager,
> because of all the comments here, his hit home closest, hit a nerve,
> so to speak.
>
> Money *has* always been tight, I've never really made what might be
> considered "great" money, decent jobs over the years, for Shadowville,
> but nothing spectacular. And certainly not from poetry.

For me, money was never "tight", but then never /that/ loose.
During the 90's I didn't look at price tags much except for things like
yachts and jet boats and I was buying toys at a frantic pace.
After a stumble recently I think I'm good for one more
/run/. Always a question. :-)

I fell in the briars and my ass still hurts.

If I fall in briars too much I'll never get anywhere in life. :-)

>
> Add to that the *fact* that outside of Shadowville [which even here I
> can't, or won't, make any noticable $$$ from the words/music/art]
> relatively few people know me as a poet... and here, in many quarters,
> I'm more infamous than famous... the underground types all know me,
> artists, musicians, as well as the *sleazier* elements, and strangely,
> the "academic" types never jeer or heckle me, but they probably like
> me personally well enough to ignore my poems when I flub up some
> verses... and point out "good" lines... some probably admire my rough
> edged, "self taught" style:

Most people in person are more reserved, yes.

Colin would probably not stand in front of your house
screaming "Dockery's poetry is unspeakable shit"
even if he lived next door to you.



>
> I *did* make it this far, as short a distance it arguably is, against
> pretty much impossible odds. Grade and High School here in the 1970s
> for whatever reason seemed intent on smashing this "poetry" idea I
> had, for probably exactly the reasons most of you hate me: I did it on
> my own, and didn't [don't] tend to listen to "sage advice"... there's
> no "literary" background in my family, really, and my mother and
> uncles [mother's side] were the first people in my family to go to
> college, though I suppose some Dockerys or Whitleys [or Lawsons or
> Darlymples] may have attended college hundreds of years ago in the
> "old country"...

That won't help :-)

> the Creek, Cherokee, Choctaw, et cetera, of course,
> had a very different system of higher learning... both sides of my
> family are very typical Southern families, comfortable, but never
> "rich".

Geneticaly you are predestined to be what you are.

If you mate with a few academics who mate with a
few academics in a few generations there will be
a new order of Dockery, but Shadowville will never
be the same.

:-)

>
> And it's true I've dropped out of college... *three* times. It's true
> that I never had that "drive" to amass grand amounts of money and
> material things... the conceit [sic?] is: I'm a poet, and not
> concerned with material things. I make enough money to "get by"... the
> wives and countless women I've loved and lost would agree more with
> the judgement of the newsgroup trolls: I'm a lazy sod.

Ha!

Perhaps I could hire you.

That's all I ever hire.


>
> I like to brag that one of the great things about being a "povert
> stricken poet" is that I know a woman loves me for *me*, not my money.
> *grin*
>
> But, yeah, it hurts when they give up and drift away. Sometimes due to
> "incredible" hardships I put them through, lack of money, security, et
> cetera, sometimes because I'd rather run around with my cronies of the
> season, playing at being a poet, getting pats on the back for being
> "Will Dockery, outlaw poet of Shadowville", sometimes because I get
> blinded by the cheap thrills of playing the hard drinking groupie
> shagger, and time after time expect the "little lady" to be sitting
> happily at home, waiting for "Neal Cassady" to drive up and light up
> her life... although the power's turned off and she might be sitting
> by a fireplace, reading his poetry by candle light. A romantic notion,
> unless you have *no choice*, Dark Queen and I both agreed, some years
> after we gave it up. She went back home to her mother, and I went off
> to "fame" with a group of Phish/Deadheads...
>
> Anyhow, before I went off into this Kerouac chapter, on this Sober
> Sunday, is that yes, yes, yes, after years of flaming and
> grandstanding, I admit that Renay, Colin, Tom, and several others here
> are right in much of what they write: my poetry could *at least* stand
> some rewrite, some "distance". My Kerouac et al "never change a word"
> "philosophy" boils down, at least partially, to being a lazy sod.
> Content to dash out some "poems" and rely on performance and flashy
> "beatnik" presentation to score.

No crime, and poetry, if it is to ever have a /resurgence/ must resurge
on all levels.

I think you could write better with some crafting and dictionary work.

You could also pay someone (or partner in some other way) to
help you punch it up.

Or you could continue "as is".




>
> And that doesn't go over like Flint on a text based medium, with
> people that *have* sweated and studied the "craft".

Demonstrably not, but so?


>
> Anyhow, this began as an apology to Blue [JJWeb] for losing my temper
> at the blunt points he made, points that actually are intended to help
> me. Calling him a "cocksucker" was low... and hypocritically, I'd
> probably blast a troll with high handed insults if *they* sank to that
> level. Cool as I *am*, there's obviously a deep undercurrent of
> homophobia [or *shudder* is it lantent homosexuality?] in that knee
> jerk insult.


You probably aren't queer. Try sucking a few dozen cocks and if
you want more then maybe...

:-)


>
> And I'm surprised that nobody's called me on my strange mixture of
> goddess worship and misogyny. Nita Gale
> <http://midgetbigot.easyjournal.com/> was the *only* person who had
> the balls to call me on that, she used to love me, but obviously gave
> up on me years ago, as well.

I have tried to find goddesses to worship. Once I even courted
a professional Domme from L.A. who relocated with me for a time,
but shortly decided that I was more dominant and she more submissive.

Women are just clueless when it comes to sexuality and they
could potentially be incredibly powerful if they had even a small clue.

Their hormone levels are just in a totally different league.

I suggest there are now drugs that say they help women's libido.

Avamil or something?

Anyone try it?


>
> So, I'm seriously considering consulting Colin on the idea of giving
> me some poetry tutorial, as he [maybe joking, but interesting, anyhow]
> wrote on one of these threads: "The difference between [poetry
> craftwork] and a bad acid trip." I really want to learn the
> difference, since quite a bit of LSD, as well as weed and of course
> booze has gone down the hatch over the years... though lately it's
> almost always booze--- which for years I always said it was impossible
> for me to write [even my meager poetry] while drunk.
>
> Ah, well, enough for now... it's time to go out and play "pizza
> delivery technician" and my current absurd "advertising exectutive"
> gig [Hey! I *do* get out there and meet, greet, and get the phones
> ringing... whatever I'm doing with the flyers and promotion is selling
> pizza like never before. Pizza Roma has hired coupon passers for 15
> years, and Ben swears he's *never* had results like those I bring...
> sorry, the insecurity blleds through, who but *Will Dockery* would
> "brag" before, as Google announces, "potentially millions of readers"
> about being a pizza boy/coupon passer... *but* Shadowville is the "big
> fish small pond" archtype in a classic sense... could I make it in New
> York, Hollywood? I did well enough in Atlanta, but honestly Atlanta is
> pretty much just an overgrown Shadowville.][Get this, it's very easy
> to swell with pride when I hear things like the other day outside
> Pizza Roma as I stood with Pasko, Ben, Brando, Carol, and Woodstock
> Eddy having a joint, and i said, "Well my loves, it's off to my
> *advertising executive* coupon passing gig..." and Carol corrected me:
> "Your a poet." and of course I agreed.] and eventually I'll have to,
> as Blue pointed out: put up or shut up, or remain Poet Lawrry-ette of
> Shadowville.

Ha!

I bet you do better than Yipsilanti.



>
> I still think JRSherman's wrong, though: it *is* poetry.
> Will
>
Colin Ward
2004-06-13 19:13:06 UTC
Permalink
On 13 Jun 2004 09:36:26 -0700, ***@yahoo.com (Will Dockery)
wrote:

[snip for brevity]

>Anyhow, before I went off into this Kerouac chapter, on this Sober
>Sunday, is that yes, yes, yes, after years of flaming and
>grandstanding, I admit that Renay, Colin, Tom, and several others here
^^^^^^^^^^

I cannot speak for Renay, but I would ask that, even if you
live to be 200, you never, ever use my name and the Tommygummer's
in the same breath. Or line. Or paragraph. Yes, I want at least
a paragraph break separating our names at all times. Preferably
separate posts, of course, but at least a paragraph break. I don't
think that's too much to ask.

>are right in much of what they write: my poetry could *at least* stand
>some rewrite, some "distance". My Kerouac et al "never change a word"
>"philosophy" boils down, at least partially, to being a lazy sod.
>Content to dash out some "poems" and rely on performance and flashy
>"beatnik" presentation to score.
>
>And that doesn't go over like Flint on a text based medium, with
>people that *have* sweated and studied the "craft".

If you're serious about learning the basics email me
your mailing address and I'll ship you a primer or two.
In the meantime, check out some of the online resources:

Gazebo Poetry Lessons:
http://www.alsopreview.com/gaz/gaz_lessons.htm

PFFA Blurbs of Wisdom:
http://www.everypoet.org/pffa/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&forumid=34

If you want it "fast and dirty", try:

PoemTips:
http://www.firesides.net/poemtips.htm

Learning basic technique is nowhere near as painful
as you might think. This may be especially true if you
have a live audience as a sounding board, such that you can
see the effects of any improvement immediately. The rest
of us can only wait until we've improved sufficiently to
look back at our first efforts and either cringe or laugh.

Read lots of poetry. For example, go to the Gazebo
(http://www.alsopreview.com/discus/index.html) right now,
hit "Last week" under "Discussions" and scroll way down to
check out "How Aimee Remembers Jaguar - Revision" by Jason
Fraley. If this poem doesn't blow you away I'd suggest
that you consider taking up macrame instead.

Good luck with your education, Will.

[snip for brevity]

>I still think JRSherman's wrong, though: it *is* poetry.
>Will

He ain't. It ain't.

You'll see. For now, though, don't let it bother you.

Best regards,

Colin
Tom Bishop
2004-06-13 19:21:33 UTC
Permalink
"Colin Ward", remarked:
> On 13 Jun 2004 09:36:26 -0700, ***@yahoo.com (Will Dockery)
> wrote:
>
> [snip for brevity]
>
> >Anyhow, before I went off into this Kerouac chapter, on this Sober
> >Sunday, is that yes, yes, yes, after years of flaming and
> >grandstanding, I admit that Renay, Colin, Tom, and several others here
> ^^^^^^^^^^
>
> I cannot speak for Renay, but I would ask that, even if you
> live to be 200, you never, ever use my name and the Tommygummer's
> in the same breath. Or line. Or paragraph. Yes, I want at least
> a paragraph break separating our names at all times. Preferably
> separate posts, of course, but at least a paragraph break. I don't
> think that's too much to ask.

You are taking on jr's affectations.

How cute.



>
> >are right in much of what they write: my poetry could *at least* stand
> >some rewrite, some "distance". My Kerouac et al "never change a word"
> >"philosophy" boils down, at least partially, to being a lazy sod.
> >Content to dash out some "poems" and rely on performance and flashy
> >"beatnik" presentation to score.
> >
> >And that doesn't go over like Flint on a text based medium, with
> >people that *have* sweated and studied the "craft".
>
> If you're serious about learning the basics email me
> your mailing address and I'll ship you a primer or two.
> In the meantime, check out some of the online resources:
>
> Gazebo Poetry Lessons:
> http://www.alsopreview.com/gaz/gaz_lessons.htm
>
> PFFA Blurbs of Wisdom:
> http://www.everypoet.org/pffa/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&forumid=34
>
> If you want it "fast and dirty", try:
>
> PoemTips:
> http://www.firesides.net/poemtips.htm
>
> Learning basic technique is nowhere near as painful
> as you might think. This may be especially true if you
> have a live audience as a sounding board, such that you can
> see the effects of any improvement immediately. The rest
> of us can only wait until we've improved sufficiently to
> look back at our first efforts and either cringe or laugh.
>
> Read lots of poetry. For example, go to the Gazebo
> (http://www.alsopreview.com/discus/index.html) right now,
> hit "Last week" under "Discussions" and scroll way down to
> check out "How Aimee Remembers Jaguar - Revision" by Jason
> Fraley. If this poem doesn't blow you away I'd suggest
> that you consider taking up macrame instead.
>
> Good luck with your education, Will.
>
> [snip for brevity]
>
> >I still think JRSherman's wrong, though: it *is* poetry.
> >Will
>
> He ain't. It ain't.
>
> You'll see. For now, though, don't let it bother you.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Colin
>
>
Dennis M. Hammes
2004-06-14 04:52:47 UTC
Permalink
Will Dockery wrote:
>
...
>
> I like to brag that one of the great things about being a "povert
> stricken poet" is that I know a woman loves me for *me*, not my money.
> *grin*
>
Keyboard, pages of Bwaha, ROTF having toedully lost it, etc.

Girls like guys are toedully confusing and confused, and don't speak
clearly around poets either.
Girls think that povert stricken poets must have big pricks to be
what they are.
They leave /immediately/ they discover that povert stricken poets
must /be/ big pricks to be what they are.
Since it's the opening requirement, quality and development do not
enter the parameter.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
The most essential gift for a good writer is
a built-in, shock-proof, shit detector. -- Hemingway
http://scrawlmark.org
Meat-->Plow
2004-06-15 12:02:14 UTC
Permalink
On 13 Jun 2004 09:36:26 -0700, ***@yahoo.com (Will Dockery),wrote:

>"Renay St. James" <***@prettyprettyprincess.com> wrote
>
>> > > > > Sunglass.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > This battered old shell
>> > > > > looks like a death mask.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Lucky or not I shall wear it
>> > > > > as I walk into Phenix City.
>> > > > > Though I cheated in my gambling
>> > > > > I wound up broke anyway.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > And I come, and I pay
>> > > > > the zombie whores and walking dead.
>> > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
>> > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > One more trip over that bridge
>> > > > > to the kissing booth.
>> > > > > Where there's smoke there may be fire
>> > > > > and this time I got burned.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I walk this beach at midnight
>> > > > > like a zen dharma beach bum.
>> > > > > And I am saved, and I turn.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
>> > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
>> > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -Will Dockery (c)2003
>
>> > "Getting into it" is not how I'd describe it. But I *will* defend myself.
>>
>> against WHAT? people who try to pat you on the head
>> like all you are is a photograph without a brain? mindless
>> insults about sucking up and sucking cock? I see.
>
>Yeah, on this sober Sunday I feel I went too far with the "cock
>sucking" comments to JJWeb [Blue]. I keep reminding myself to take it
>easy and not get too deep in the flame games stuff... I'll track him
>down and give him an apology.
>
>On this sober Sunday, I realise that I jumped in too far, in ager,
>because of all the comments here, his hit home closest, hit a nerve,
>so to speak.
>
>Money *has* always been tight, I've never really made what might be
>considered "great" money, decent jobs over the years, for Shadowville,
>but nothing spectacular. And certainly not from poetry.
>
>Add to that the *fact* that outside of Shadowville [which even here I
>can't, or won't, make any noticable $$$ from the words/music/art]
>relatively few people know me as a poet... and here, in many quarters,
>I'm more infamous than famous... the underground types all know me,
>artists, musicians, as well as the *sleazier* elements, and strangely,
>the "academic" types never jeer or heckle me, but they probably like
>me personally well enough to ignore my poems when I flub up some
>verses... and point out "good" lines... some probably admire my rough
>edged, "self taught" style:
>
>I *did* make it this far, as short a distance it arguably is, against
>pretty much impossible odds. Grade and High School here in the 1970s
>for whatever reason seemed intent on smashing this "poetry" idea I
>had, for probably exactly the reasons most of you hate me: I did it on
>my own, and didn't [don't] tend to listen to "sage advice"... there's
>no "literary" background in my family, really, and my mother and
>uncles [mother's side] were the first people in my family to go to
>college, though I suppose some Dockerys or Whitleys [or Lawsons or
>Darlymples] may have attended college hundreds of years ago in the
>"old country"... the Creek, Cherokee, Choctaw, et cetera, of course,
>had a very different system of higher learning... both sides of my
>family are very typical Southern families, comfortable, but never
>"rich".
>
>And it's true I've dropped out of college... *three* times. It's true
>that I never had that "drive" to amass grand amounts of money and
>material things... the conceit [sic?] is: I'm a poet, and not
>concerned with material things. I make enough money to "get by"... the
>wives and countless women I've loved and lost would agree more with
>the judgement of the newsgroup trolls: I'm a lazy sod.
>
>I like to brag that one of the great things about being a "povert
>stricken poet" is that I know a woman loves me for *me*, not my money.
>*grin*
>
>But, yeah, it hurts when they give up and drift away. Sometimes due to
>"incredible" hardships I put them through, lack of money, security, et
>cetera, sometimes because I'd rather run around with my cronies of the
>season, playing at being a poet, getting pats on the back for being
>"Will Dockery, outlaw poet of Shadowville", sometimes because I get
>blinded by the cheap thrills of playing the hard drinking groupie
>shagger, and time after time expect the "little lady" to be sitting
>happily at home, waiting for "Neal Cassady" to drive up and light up
>her life... although the power's turned off and she might be sitting
>by a fireplace, reading his poetry by candle light. A romantic notion,
>unless you have *no choice*, Dark Queen and I both agreed, some years
>after we gave it up. She went back home to her mother, and I went off
>to "fame" with a group of Phish/Deadheads...
>
>Anyhow, before I went off into this Kerouac chapter, on this Sober
>Sunday, is that yes, yes, yes, after years of flaming and
>grandstanding, I admit that Renay, Colin, Tom, and several others here
>are right in much of what they write: my poetry could *at least* stand
>some rewrite, some "distance". My Kerouac et al "never change a word"
>"philosophy" boils down, at least partially, to being a lazy sod.
>Content to dash out some "poems" and rely on performance and flashy
>"beatnik" presentation to score.
>
>And that doesn't go over like Flint on a text based medium, with
>people that *have* sweated and studied the "craft".
>
>Anyhow, this began as an apology to Blue [JJWeb] for losing my temper
>at the blunt points he made, points that actually are intended to help
>me. Calling him a "cocksucker" was low... and hypocritically, I'd
>probably blast a troll with high handed insults if *they* sank to that
>level. Cool as I *am*, there's obviously a deep undercurrent of
>homophobia [or *shudder* is it lantent homosexuality?] in that knee
>jerk insult.
>
>And I'm surprised that nobody's called me on my strange mixture of
>goddess worship and misogyny. Nita Gale
><http://midgetbigot.easyjournal.com/> was the *only* person who had
>the balls to call me on that, she used to love me, but obviously gave
>up on me years ago, as well.
>
>So, I'm seriously considering consulting Colin on the idea of giving
>me some poetry tutorial, as he [maybe joking, but interesting, anyhow]
>wrote on one of these threads: "The difference between [poetry
>craftwork] and a bad acid trip." I really want to learn the
>difference, since quite a bit of LSD, as well as weed and of course
>booze has gone down the hatch over the years... though lately it's
>almost always booze--- which for years I always said it was impossible
>for me to write [even my meager poetry] while drunk.
>
>Ah, well, enough for now... it's time to go out and play "pizza
>delivery technician" and my current absurd "advertising exectutive"
>gig [Hey! I *do* get out there and meet, greet, and get the phones
>ringing... whatever I'm doing with the flyers and promotion is selling
>pizza like never before. Pizza Roma has hired coupon passers for 15
>years, and Ben swears he's *never* had results like those I bring...
>sorry, the insecurity blleds through, who but *Will Dockery* would
>"brag" before, as Google announces, "potentially millions of readers"
>about being a pizza boy/coupon passer... *but* Shadowville is the "big
>fish small pond" archtype in a classic sense... could I make it in New
>York, Hollywood? I did well enough in Atlanta, but honestly Atlanta is
>pretty much just an overgrown Shadowville.][Get this, it's very easy
>to swell with pride when I hear things like the other day outside
>Pizza Roma as I stood with Pasko, Ben, Brando, Carol, and Woodstock
>Eddy having a joint, and i said, "Well my loves, it's off to my
>*advertising executive* coupon passing gig..." and Carol corrected me:
>"Your a poet." and of course I agreed.] and eventually I'll have to,
>as Blue pointed out: put up or shut up, or remain Poet Lawrry-ette of
>Shadowville.


What a pathetic whine. You didn't need that many paragraphs just to say,

"I'm Spanked"
Will Dockery
2004-06-12 18:07:05 UTC
Permalink
"Tom Bishop" wrote:

> "Meat-- Plow", remarked:
> > On 11 Jun 2004 13:30:12 -0700, ***@yahoo.com (Will Dockery),wrote:
> >
> > >Sunglass.
> > >
> > >This battered old shell
> > >looks like a death mask.
> >
> > Makes no sense
>
> Makes perfect sense.. if anything too much.
>
> >
> > >Lucky or not I shall wear it
> > >as I walk into Phenix City.
> > >Though I cheated in my gambling
> > >I wound up broke anyway.
> >
> > Phenix ? Where the fuck is Phenix City?
>
> Ever hear of google?
>
> http://www.phenixcityal.us/

Yep, wasn't so hard, was it? There's no "O" in "Phenix" btw.

> > > > > Sunglass.
> > > > >
> > > > > This battered old shell
> > > > > looks like a death mask.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lucky or not I shall wear it
> > > > > as I walk into Phenix City.
> > > > > Though I cheated in my gambling
> > > > > I wound up broke anyway.
> > > > >
> > > > > And I come, and I pay
> > > > > the zombie whores and walking dead.
> > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > >
> > > > > One more trip over that bridge
> > > > > to the kissing booth.
> > > > > Where there's smoke there may be fire
> > > > > and this time I got burned.
> > > > >
> > > > > I walk this beach at midnight
> > > > > like a zen dharma beach bum.
> > > > > And I am saved, and I turn.
> > > > >
> > > > > I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
> > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Will Dockery (c)2003
> > > > > =
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You hate people, don't you Will?
> > >
> > > No, I don't hate anyone, Cain, not even you... *grin*
Will Dockery
2004-06-12 18:40:38 UTC
Permalink
> > > > > Sunglass.
> > > > >
> > > > > This battered old shell
> > > > > looks like a death mask.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lucky or not I shall wear it
> > > > > as I walk into Phenix City.
> > > > > Though I cheated in my gambling
> > > > > I wound up broke anyway.
> > > > >
> > > > > And I come, and I pay
> > > > > the zombie whores and walking dead.
> > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > >
> > > > > One more trip over that bridge
> > > > > to the kissing booth.
> > > > > Where there's smoke there may be fire
> > > > > and this time I got burned.
> > > > >
> > > > > I walk this beach at midnight
> > > > > like a zen dharma beach bum.
> > > > > And I am saved, and I turn.
> > > > >
> > > > > I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
> > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Will Dockery (c)2003

> **** Should I remind you that it was *you* who started the "sucking
> up" thing-?
> You wrote that if I *knew* how important JJWeb is, I'd be
> "sucking up" to him... I just proceeded to run your insult into the
> ground.

no, that is not what I said. I said if you knew who he is
you'd be sucking up. you added the "important" part yourself.
and where did I mention sucking cock?

for such a manly man, you sure get jerked around like a puppet.

Renay

**** Well, for starters, your endlessley repeated [bogus, I assume]
email addy named "***@chucksucksDICK.com" or somesuch as that.

**** Jerked around? Nah. Not a bit, honey.
Renay St. James
2004-06-12 18:50:29 UTC
Permalink
"Will Dockery" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:***@posting.google.com...
> > > > > > Sunglass.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This battered old shell
> > > > > > looks like a death mask.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lucky or not I shall wear it
> > > > > > as I walk into Phenix City.
> > > > > > Though I cheated in my gambling
> > > > > > I wound up broke anyway.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And I come, and I pay
> > > > > > the zombie whores and walking dead.
> > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One more trip over that bridge
> > > > > > to the kissing booth.
> > > > > > Where there's smoke there may be fire
> > > > > > and this time I got burned.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I walk this beach at midnight
> > > > > > like a zen dharma beach bum.
> > > > > > And I am saved, and I turn.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
> > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Will Dockery (c)2003
>
> > **** Should I remind you that it was *you* who started the "sucking
> > up" thing-?
> > You wrote that if I *knew* how important JJWeb is, I'd be
> > "sucking up" to him... I just proceeded to run your insult into the
> > ground.
>
> no, that is not what I said. I said if you knew who he is
> you'd be sucking up. you added the "important" part yourself.
> and where did I mention sucking cock?
>
> for such a manly man, you sure get jerked around like a puppet.
>
>
>
> **** Well, for starters, your endlessley repeated [bogus, I assume]
> email addy named "***@chucksucksDICK.com" or somesuch as that.

I notice you trimmed the top so you'd look less silly. what
does it say up there, Will? and what's your point?
>
> **** Jerked around? Nah. Not a bit, honey.

this is like talking to a 3rd grader.

Renay
Will Dockery
2004-06-13 01:39:20 UTC
Permalink
"Renay St. James" <***@prettyprettyprincess.com> wrote

> > > > > > > Sunglass.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This battered old shell
> > > > > > > looks like a death mask.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Lucky or not I shall wear it
> > > > > > > as I walk into Phenix City.
> > > > > > > Though I cheated in my gambling
> > > > > > > I wound up broke anyway.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And I come, and I pay
> > > > > > > the zombie whores and walking dead.
> > > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > One more trip over that bridge
> > > > > > > to the kissing booth.
> > > > > > > Where there's smoke there may be fire
> > > > > > > and this time I got burned.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I walk this beach at midnight
> > > > > > > like a zen dharma beach bum.
> > > > > > > And I am saved, and I turn.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
> > > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Will Dockery (c)2003

> > for such a manly man, you sure get jerked around like a puppet.

> > **** Jerked around? Nah. Not a bit, honey.
>
> this is like talking to a 3rd grader.

Maybe you should killfile me.
Will Dockery
2004-06-13 19:06:22 UTC
Permalink
ggamble wrote:

> On 13 Jun 2004 09:36:26 -0700, ***@yahoo.com (Will Dockery)
> wrote:
>
> >I *did* make it this far, as short a distance it arguably is, against
> >pretty much impossible odds. Grade and High School here in the 1970s
> >for whatever reason seemed intent on smashing this "poetry" idea I
> >had, for probably exactly the reasons most of you hate me: I did it on
> >my own, and didn't [don't] tend to listen to "sage advice"...
>
>
> Like most of your so-called poetry, this trainwreck of a
> self-involved. confessional sentence attempt makes no sense.

Well, I don't expect to change my spots immediately. Perhaps I won't
be able to pull it off at all. I'm kinda old, y'know... but I want to
try.

> I think it means that you've had this egocentric, delusional
> *idea* that you were a *poet* for a long, long time and you're used to
> people laughing at you about it.

I've written as much several times here. I even backed it up with a
psuedo scholarly book that compares Rimbaud to Jim Morrison. *giggle*

There was this French "Vouyo" [probably not the right spelling, and
I'm of course too lazy to go to the shed to look it up] This "person"
walked a tightrope between poet and clown, and crossed to both sides
often. Of course, I said "That's me! I'm a part of some great French
poetic tradition!" Never mind that the French love Jerry Lewis. You're
probably a hundred times more familar with this "Vouyo" than I am...

Do you consider Rimbaud good? Just asking. Obviously I'm well aware of
Jim Morrison's status... I suppose he at least had the good sense to
die young... at my age, I suppose a lot of my "fans" do show up for a
good laugh... smiling faces *do* come across as happy, appreciative
audience members, y'know.

I've done the "Morrison" crazy charisma thing for a long long time...
certainly people attend a Will Dockery set because they can expect the
unexpected... I *do* hear that I'm "good" a lot... but I think it's
more to do with my stunningly handsome stage moves than the poetry...
and, of course, for the last year or two the finest musicians around
show up to back me, and catch some of the drama of it all. Two weeks
ago, not a single musician showed, and I read "Left Handed Summer"
alone on the stage. This was the way it was at first, straight poetry
readings... I miss that. Funny, though, for some reason [something in
the water?] the audience seemed to *like* the poem.

I'd really like to try an experiment: what would the audience think it
I actually managed to *learn* something, and wrote a few new poems
from some other vantage. I keep typing *might* and *maybe* so as not
to fall into accusations of yet another "delusion". I'm well aware
that I might not be able to pull this "learning" thing off. My last
bout of college, in 1997, which Dark Queen talked me into so we'd have
the grant/loan money to spend, I actually went around saying almost
"destroyed" my poetry... ah yes, a tangled web, eh?

Therefore, your defense mechanisms
> are well-devoloped, and your responses codified:
>
> You tell everyone who tells you that you need to *work* at this
> *poetry thing that they're *full of shit* because *your (sic) a poet*,
> and therefore, your *sacred emanations* are divine pearls of
> consciousness plucked from the flowing river of Maya.

Yes, and hit an all-time low yesterday when I called Blue a
"cocksucker" when he was trying to *help* me. Then I read one of his
poems, and find that the poem I read is pretty much how I imagine my
poems to be... except, get this: I liked his better than mine. A
satori.

So, it's time for something new... work. I still think I hit on some
good lines here and there, I'm seeing glaringly clear the padding and
filler--- yes, poetry is *not* rock and roll lyrics.

Can I manage to improve? God only knows... I want to, since good or
bad, and obviously pretty sadly, my poetry is really all I have. And
I've abused it to the point where I've trashed it just as much as
everything else in my life.

Time for a change. Hopefully some of you will at least wish me luck.

> I've seen this pantomime in all ages of novice writers.
> Some people grow out of it early on, some never do.
> I personally believe that it's better to grow out of it early on.

Better late than never, I'm hoping.

> And there's this fascination with the Beats and Buk, and anyone who
> appears is if the whole writing thing is just a drunken frat kegger.
> I'll bet it would freak you out to know how many times Jack revised
> *On the Road*.

Well, Kerouac, unlike Buk, one of the few things I know pretty much
inside and out. I'm still reading and re-reading the same biographies,
the same books I was reading 30 years ago. I think it's you who
constantly writes "Read some poetry".

So, I know pretty much plenty about Kerouac, Ginsberg, Patti Smith,
Corso, Jagger-Richards, Frank O'Hara, Jim Morrison, Bob Dylan, and
I've read lots of Edgar Allen Poe and Rimbaud, even a good bit of
Dylan Thomas, at least the parts I could make sense of. So, that can
wait, obviously.

What I'd like to know, if you don't mind, is what poet would you name
*right now* to read, *first*? Name the best of the best, or your
favorite, and I swear I'll go out an find some... or simply Google
him/her.

But I'm admitting that the beatnik/rock-n-roll/whatever street I've
been on since [wow] 1973 or something is not enough. Nor is the Lord
Byron swagger without actually knowing what he did when he wasn't
swaggering, but writing.

> Anyway, I do realize that (your sudden display of humility
> notwithstanding) this is supposed to be All About You, but:
>
> I (me mine) went to *Grade and High School* in Atlanta in the 1970's
> and came away with a lifelong love of Dylan Thomas, WCW, Eliot
> and Tennessee Williams;
> where the fuck did you go to school?

Carver High School, down in Columbus. Atlanta, though not perfect, was
light years ahead of Columbus back then, and even moreso now. I moved
to Atlanta in Spring of 1980, with Kathy, which is where both sides of
her family were located.

Amazing difference in two cities so close by. I swore I'd never return
here... but I did. I swore we'd return to beloved Atlanta soon... that
was close to 20 years ago. I had to do a lot of catching up in the
years I was there. I found that even the rednecks, roofers and hookers
were better educated than me. I learned a lot, and if I'd stayed, I
would have been *forced* to continue to learn... Shadowville was easy,
safe, and I took a job in a mill.

REM sang "Don't Go Back To Rockville"... but as usual, I didn't
listen.

> That's a rhetorical question, I don't really need to know.
>
> jesus fuck,
> what if we went to the same school?

Are you from the North East side of Atlanta? You could have very
likely seen me walking Piedmont Road, Monroe Ave., Cheshire Bridge,
Buford Highway...

I know this is a pretty silly question, but did you know Wes Sprunger,
Jag, Cliff? Those were great kids, haven't seen them in so many
years... hope they're well.


> "Renay St. James" <***@prettyprettyprincess.com> wrote
>
> > > > > > > > Sunglass.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This battered old shell
> > > > > > > > looks like a death mask.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Lucky or not I shall wear it
> > > > > > > > as I walk into Phenix City.
> > > > > > > > Though I cheated in my gambling
> > > > > > > > I wound up broke anyway.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And I come, and I pay
> > > > > > > > the zombie whores and walking dead.
> > > > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > One more trip over that bridge
> > > > > > > > to the kissing booth.
> > > > > > > > Where there's smoke there may be fire
> > > > > > > > and this time I got burned.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I walk this beach at midnight
> > > > > > > > like a zen dharma beach bum.
> > > > > > > > And I am saved, and I turn.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
> > > > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -Will Dockery (c)2003
>
> > > for such a manly man, you sure get jerked around like a puppet.
>
Tom Bishop
2004-06-13 22:19:14 UTC
Permalink
"Will Dockery", remarked:
> ggamble wrote:
>
> > On 13 Jun 2004 09:36:26 -0700, ***@yahoo.com (Will Dockery)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >I *did* make it this far, as short a distance it arguably is, against
> > >pretty much impossible odds. Grade and High School here in the 1970s
> > >for whatever reason seemed intent on smashing this "poetry" idea I
> > >had, for probably exactly the reasons most of you hate me: I did it on
> > >my own, and didn't [don't] tend to listen to "sage advice"...
> >
> >
> > Like most of your so-called poetry, this trainwreck of a
> > self-involved. confessional sentence attempt makes no sense.
>
> Well, I don't expect to change my spots immediately. Perhaps I won't
> be able to pull it off at all. I'm kinda old, y'know... but I want to
> try.
>
> > I think it means that you've had this egocentric, delusional
> > *idea* that you were a *poet* for a long, long time and you're used to
> > people laughing at you about it.
>
> I've written as much several times here. I even backed it up with a
> psuedo scholarly book that compares Rimbaud to Jim Morrison. *giggle*
>
> There was this French "Vouyo" [probably not the right spelling, and
> I'm of course too lazy to go to the shed to look it up] This "person"
> walked a tightrope between poet and clown, and crossed to both sides
> often. Of course, I said "That's me! I'm a part of some great French
> poetic tradition!" Never mind that the French love Jerry Lewis. You're
> probably a hundred times more familar with this "Vouyo" than I am...
>
> Do you consider Rimbaud good? Just asking. Obviously I'm well aware of
> Jim Morrison's status... I suppose he at least had the good sense to
> die young... at my age, I suppose a lot of my "fans" do show up for a
> good laugh... smiling faces *do* come across as happy, appreciative
> audience members, y'know.
>
> I've done the "Morrison" crazy charisma thing for a long long time...
> certainly people attend a Will Dockery set because they can expect the
> unexpected... I *do* hear that I'm "good" a lot... but I think it's
> more to do with my stunningly handsome stage moves than the poetry...
> and, of course, for the last year or two the finest musicians around
> show up to back me, and catch some of the drama of it all. Two weeks
> ago, not a single musician showed, and I read "Left Handed Summer"
> alone on the stage. This was the way it was at first, straight poetry
> readings... I miss that. Funny, though, for some reason [something in
> the water?] the audience seemed to *like* the poem.
>
> I'd really like to try an experiment: what would the audience think it
> I actually managed to *learn* something, and wrote a few new poems
> from some other vantage. I keep typing *might* and *maybe* so as not
> to fall into accusations of yet another "delusion". I'm well aware
> that I might not be able to pull this "learning" thing off. My last
> bout of college, in 1997, which Dark Queen talked me into so we'd have
> the grant/loan money to spend, I actually went around saying almost
> "destroyed" my poetry... ah yes, a tangled web, eh?
>
> Therefore, your defense mechanisms
> > are well-devoloped, and your responses codified:
> >
> > You tell everyone who tells you that you need to *work* at this
> > *poetry thing that they're *full of shit* because *your (sic) a poet*,
> > and therefore, your *sacred emanations* are divine pearls of
> > consciousness plucked from the flowing river of Maya.
>
> Yes, and hit an all-time low yesterday when I called Blue a
> "cocksucker" when he was trying to *help* me. Then I read one of his
> poems, and find that the poem I read is pretty much how I imagine my
> poems to be... except, get this: I liked his better than mine. A
> satori.

It is cool when you find out how clever some people can be.


>
> So, it's time for something new... work. I still think I hit on some
> good lines here and there, I'm seeing glaringly clear the padding and
> filler--- yes, poetry is *not* rock and roll lyrics.

Destroying "what first comes to mind" is a constant process.
Piecing together the remains is like brain surgery.




>
> Can I manage to improve? God only knows...

You are limited in that you are only so clever, only so much time,
only so much interest in it.

In a choice between pizza and poetry sometimes pizza wins.



> I want to, since good or
> bad, and obviously pretty sadly, my poetry is really all I have. And
> I've abused it to the point where I've trashed it just as much as
> everything else in my life.
>
> Time for a change. Hopefully some of you will at least wish me luck.

Good luck.

>
> > I've seen this pantomime in all ages of novice writers.
> > Some people grow out of it early on, some never do.
> > I personally believe that it's better to grow out of it early on.
>
> Better late than never, I'm hoping.

Keep your gig though~!



>
> > And there's this fascination with the Beats and Buk, and anyone who
> > appears is if the whole writing thing is just a drunken frat kegger.
> > I'll bet it would freak you out to know how many times Jack revised
> > *On the Road*.
>
> Well, Kerouac, unlike Buk, one of the few things I know pretty much
> inside and out. I'm still reading and re-reading the same biographies,
> the same books I was reading 30 years ago. I think it's you who
> constantly writes "Read some poetry".
>
> So, I know pretty much plenty about Kerouac, Ginsberg, Patti Smith,
> Corso, Jagger-Richards, Frank O'Hara, Jim Morrison, Bob Dylan, and
> I've read lots of Edgar Allen Poe and Rimbaud, even a good bit of
> Dylan Thomas, at least the parts I could make sense of. So, that can
> wait, obviously.

But listen to the sounds.

Speak it out loud, eh?

>
> What I'd like to know, if you don't mind, is what poet would you name
> *right now* to read, *first*? Name the best of the best, or your
> favorite, and I swear I'll go out an find some... or simply Google
> him/her.

There are obviously lots of link sites.

Zidebar is one.

AAPC site has a lot of good links.


>
> But I'm admitting that the beatnik/rock-n-roll/whatever street I've
> been on since [wow] 1973 or something is not enough. Nor is the Lord
> Byron swagger without actually knowing what he did when he wasn't
> swaggering, but writing.

Good.

>
> > Anyway, I do realize that (your sudden display of humility
> > notwithstanding) this is supposed to be All About You, but:
> >
> > I (me mine) went to *Grade and High School* in Atlanta in the 1970's
> > and came away with a lifelong love of Dylan Thomas, WCW, Eliot
> > and Tennessee Williams;
> > where the fuck did you go to school?
>
> Carver High School, down in Columbus. Atlanta, though not perfect, was
> light years ahead of Columbus back then, and even moreso now. I moved
> to Atlanta in Spring of 1980, with Kathy, which is where both sides of
> her family were located.
>
> Amazing difference in two cities so close by. I swore I'd never return
> here... but I did. I swore we'd return to beloved Atlanta soon... that
> was close to 20 years ago. I had to do a lot of catching up in the
> years I was there. I found that even the rednecks, roofers and hookers
> were better educated than me. I learned a lot, and if I'd stayed, I
> would have been *forced* to continue to learn... Shadowville was easy,
> safe, and I took a job in a mill.
>
> REM sang "Don't Go Back To Rockville"... but as usual, I didn't
> listen.
>
> > That's a rhetorical question, I don't really need to know.
> >
> > jesus fuck,
> > what if we went to the same school?
>
> Are you from the North East side of Atlanta?
> You could have very
> likely seen me walking Piedmont Road, Monroe Ave., Cheshire Bridge,
> Buford Highway...
>
> I know this is a pretty silly question, but did you know Wes Sprunger,
> Jag, Cliff? Those were great kids, haven't seen them in so many
> years... hope they're well.
>
>
> > "Renay St. James" <***@prettyprettyprincess.com> wrote
> >
> > > > > > > > > Sunglass.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This battered old shell
> > > > > > > > > looks like a death mask.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Lucky or not I shall wear it
> > > > > > > > > as I walk into Phenix City.
> > > > > > > > > Though I cheated in my gambling
> > > > > > > > > I wound up broke anyway.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And I come, and I pay
> > > > > > > > > the zombie whores and walking dead.
> > > > > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > One more trip over that bridge
> > > > > > > > > to the kissing booth.
> > > > > > > > > Where there's smoke there may be fire
> > > > > > > > > and this time I got burned.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I walk this beach at midnight
> > > > > > > > > like a zen dharma beach bum.
> > > > > > > > > And I am saved, and I turn.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
> > > > > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -Will Dockery (c)2003
> >
> > > > for such a manly man, you sure get jerked around like a puppet.
> >
>
Will Dockery
2004-07-02 08:15:50 UTC
Permalink
"Tom Bishop" <***@sbc-elidethis-global.net> wrote in message news:<40ccd2e3$0$21981$***@news.usenetguide.com>...
> "Will Dockery", remarked:
> > ggamble wrote:
> >
> > > On 13 Jun 2004 09:36:26 -0700, ***@yahoo.com (Will Dockery)
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >I *did* make it this far, as short a distance it arguably is, against
> > > >pretty much impossible odds. Grade and High School here in the 1970s
> > > >for whatever reason seemed intent on smashing this "poetry" idea I
> > > >had, for probably exactly the reasons most of you hate me: I did it on
> > > >my own, and didn't [don't] tend to listen to "sage advice"...
> > >
> > >
> > > Like most of your so-called poetry, this trainwreck of a
> > > self-involved. confessional sentence attempt makes no sense.
> >
> > Well, I don't expect to change my spots immediately. Perhaps I won't
> > be able to pull it off at all. I'm kinda old, y'know... but I want to
> > try.
> >
> > > I think it means that you've had this egocentric, delusional
> > > *idea* that you were a *poet* for a long, long time and you're used to
> > > people laughing at you about it.
> >
> > I've written as much several times here. I even backed it up with a
> > psuedo scholarly book that compares Rimbaud to Jim Morrison. *giggle*
> >
> > There was this French "Vouyo" [probably not the right spelling, and
> > I'm of course too lazy to go to the shed to look it up] This "person"
> > walked a tightrope between poet and clown, and crossed to both sides
> > often. Of course, I said "That's me! I'm a part of some great French
> > poetic tradition!" Never mind that the French love Jerry Lewis. You're
> > probably a hundred times more familar with this "Vouyo" than I am...
> >
> > Do you consider Rimbaud good? Just asking. Obviously I'm well aware of
> > Jim Morrison's status... I suppose he at least had the good sense to
> > die young... at my age, I suppose a lot of my "fans" do show up for a
> > good laugh... smiling faces *do* come across as happy, appreciative
> > audience members, y'know.
> >
> > I've done the "Morrison" crazy charisma thing for a long long time...
> > certainly people attend a Will Dockery set because they can expect the
> > unexpected... I *do* hear that I'm "good" a lot... but I think it's
> > more to do with my stunningly handsome stage moves than the poetry...
> > and, of course, for the last year or two the finest musicians around
> > show up to back me, and catch some of the drama of it all. Two weeks
> > ago, not a single musician showed, and I read "Left Handed Summer"
> > alone on the stage. This was the way it was at first, straight poetry
> > readings... I miss that. Funny, though, for some reason [something in
> > the water?] the audience seemed to *like* the poem.
> >
> > I'd really like to try an experiment: what would the audience think it
> > I actually managed to *learn* something, and wrote a few new poems
> > from some other vantage. I keep typing *might* and *maybe* so as not
> > to fall into accusations of yet another "delusion". I'm well aware
> > that I might not be able to pull this "learning" thing off. My last
> > bout of college, in 1997, which Dark Queen talked me into so we'd have
> > the grant/loan money to spend, I actually went around saying almost
> > "destroyed" my poetry... ah yes, a tangled web, eh?
> >
> > Therefore, your defense mechanisms
> > > are well-devoloped, and your responses codified:
> > >
> > > You tell everyone who tells you that you need to *work* at this
> > > *poetry thing that they're *full of shit* because *your (sic) a poet*,
> > > and therefore, your *sacred emanations* are divine pearls of
> > > consciousness plucked from the flowing river of Maya.
> >
> > Yes, and hit an all-time low yesterday when I called Blue a
> > "cocksucker" when he was trying to *help* me. Then I read one of his
> > poems, and find that the poem I read is pretty much how I imagine my
> > poems to be... except, get this: I liked his better than mine. A
> > satori.
>
> It is cool when you find out how clever some people can be.
>
>
> >
> > So, it's time for something new... work. I still think I hit on some
> > good lines here and there, I'm seeing glaringly clear the padding and
> > filler--- yes, poetry is *not* rock and roll lyrics.
>
> Destroying "what first comes to mind" is a constant process.
> Piecing together the remains is like brain surgery.
>
> >
> > Can I manage to improve? God only knows...
>
> You are limited in that you are only so clever, only so much time,
> only so much interest in it.
>
> In a choice between pizza and poetry sometimes pizza wins.
>
> > I want to, since good or
> > bad, and obviously pretty sadly, my poetry is really all I have. And
> > I've abused it to the point where I've trashed it just as much as
> > everything else in my life.
> >
> > Time for a change. Hopefully some of you will at least wish me luck.
>
> Good luck.
>
> >
> > > I've seen this pantomime in all ages of novice writers.
> > > Some people grow out of it early on, some never do.
> > > I personally believe that it's better to grow out of it early on.
> >
> > Better late than never, I'm hoping.
>
> Keep your gig though~!
>
> >
> > > And there's this fascination with the Beats and Buk, and anyone who
> > > appears is if the whole writing thing is just a drunken frat kegger.
> > > I'll bet it would freak you out to know how many times Jack revised
> > > *On the Road*.
> >
> > Well, Kerouac, unlike Buk, one of the few things I know pretty much
> > inside and out. I'm still reading and re-reading the same biographies,
> > the same books I was reading 30 years ago. I think it's you who
> > constantly writes "Read some poetry".
> >
> > So, I know pretty much plenty about Kerouac, Ginsberg, Patti Smith,
> > Corso, Jagger-Richards, Frank O'Hara, Jim Morrison, Bob Dylan, and
> > I've read lots of Edgar Allen Poe and Rimbaud, even a good bit of
> > Dylan Thomas, at least the parts I could make sense of. So, that can
> > wait, obviously.
>
> But listen to the sounds.
>
> Speak it out loud, eh?
>
> >
> > What I'd like to know, if you don't mind, is what poet would you name
> > *right now* to read, *first*? Name the best of the best, or your
> > favorite, and I swear I'll go out an find some... or simply Google
> > him/her.
>
> There are obviously lots of link sites.
>
> Zidebar is one.
>
> AAPC site has a lot of good links.
>
>
> >
> > But I'm admitting that the beatnik/rock-n-roll/whatever street I've
> > been on since [wow] 1973 or something is not enough. Nor is the Lord
> > Byron swagger without actually knowing what he did when he wasn't
> > swaggering, but writing.
>
> Good.
>
> >
> > > Anyway, I do realize that (your sudden display of humility
> > > notwithstanding) this is supposed to be All About You, but:
> > >
> > > I (me mine) went to *Grade and High School* in Atlanta in the 1970's
> > > and came away with a lifelong love of Dylan Thomas, WCW, Eliot
> > > and Tennessee Williams;
> > > where the fuck did you go to school?
> >
> > Carver High School, down in Columbus. Atlanta, though not perfect, was
> > light years ahead of Columbus back then, and even moreso now. I moved
> > to Atlanta in Spring of 1980, with Kathy, which is where both sides of
> > her family were located.
> >
> > Amazing difference in two cities so close by. I swore I'd never return
> > here... but I did. I swore we'd return to beloved Atlanta soon... that
> > was close to 20 years ago. I had to do a lot of catching up in the
> > years I was there. I found that even the rednecks, roofers and hookers
> > were better educated than me. I learned a lot, and if I'd stayed, I
> > would have been *forced* to continue to learn... Shadowville was easy,
> > safe, and I took a job in a mill.
> >
> > REM sang "Don't Go Back To Rockville"... but as usual, I didn't
> > listen.
> >
> > > That's a rhetorical question, I don't really need to know.
> > >
> > > jesus fuck,
> > > what if we went to the same school?
> >
> > Are you from the North East side of Atlanta?
> > You could have very
> > likely seen me walking Piedmont Road, Monroe Ave., Cheshire Bridge,
> > Buford Highway...
> >
> > I know this is a pretty silly question, but did you know Wes Sprunger,
> > Jag, Cliff? Those were great kids, haven't seen them in so many
> > years... hope they're well.
> >
> >
> > > "Renay St. James" <***@prettyprettyprincess.com> wrote
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > Sunglass.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This battered old shell
> > > > > > > > > > looks like a death mask.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Lucky or not I shall wear it
> > > > > > > > > > as I walk into Phenix City.
> > > > > > > > > > Though I cheated in my gambling
> > > > > > > > > > I wound up broke anyway.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > And I come, and I pay
> > > > > > > > > > the zombie whores and walking dead.
> > > > > > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > One more trip over that bridge
> > > > > > > > > > to the kissing booth.
> > > > > > > > > > Where there's smoke there may be fire
> > > > > > > > > > and this time I got burned.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I walk this beach at midnight
> > > > > > > > > > like a zen dharma beach bum.
> > > > > > > > > > And I am saved, and I turn.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
> > > > > > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > -Will Dockery (c)2003
>
> > > > > for such a manly man, you sure get jerked around like a puppet.

Funny, I don't feel the *jerk* at all.
Tom Bishop
2004-07-02 14:41:55 UTC
Permalink
> > > > > > for such a manly man, you sure get jerked around like a puppet.
>
> Funny, I don't feel the *jerk* at all.


That wasn't me.
Will Dockery
2012-11-17 05:56:09 UTC
Permalink
"Tom Bishop" <***@sbc-elidethis-global.net> wrote in message news:<40ccd2e3$0$21981$***@news.usenetguide.com>...
> "Will Dockery", remarked:
>
> > > > >I *did* make it this far, as short a distance it arguably is, against
> > > > >pretty much impossible odds. Grade and High School here in the 1970s
> > > > >for whatever reason seemed intent on smashing this "poetry" idea I
> > > > >had, for probably exactly the reasons most of you hate me: I did it on
> > > > >my own, and didn't [don't] tend to listen to "sage advice"...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Like most of your so-called poetry, this trainwreck of a
> > > > self-involved. confessional sentence attempt makes no sense.
> > >
> > > Well, I don't expect to change my spots immediately. Perhaps I won't
> > > be able to pull it off at all. I'm kinda old, y'know... but I want to
> > > try.
> > >
> > > > I think it means that you've had this egocentric, delusional
> > > > *idea* that you were a *poet* for a long, long time and you're used to
> > > > people laughing at you about it.
> > >
> > > I've written as much several times here. I even backed it up with a
> > > psuedo scholarly book that compares Rimbaud to Jim Morrison. *giggle*
> > >
> > > There was this French "Vouyo" [probably not the right spelling, and
> > > I'm of course too lazy to go to the shed to look it up] This "person"
> > > walked a tightrope between poet and clown, and crossed to both sides
> > > often. Of course, I said "That's me! I'm a part of some great French
> > > poetic tradition!" Never mind that the French love Jerry Lewis. You're
> > > probably a hundred times more familar with this "Vouyo" than I am...
> > >
> > > Do you consider Rimbaud good? Just asking. Obviously I'm well aware of
> > > Jim Morrison's status... I suppose he at least had the good sense to
> > > die young... at my age, I suppose a lot of my "fans" do show up for a
> > > good laugh... smiling faces *do* come across as happy, appreciative
> > > audience members, y'know.
> > >
> > > I've done the "Morrison" crazy charisma thing for a long long time...
> > > certainly people attend a Will Dockery set because they can expect the
> > > unexpected... I *do* hear that I'm "good" a lot... but I think it's
> > > more to do with my stunningly handsome stage moves than the poetry...
> > > and, of course, for the last year or two the finest musicians around
> > > show up to back me, and catch some of the drama of it all. Two weeks
> > > ago, not a single musician showed, and I read "Left Handed Summer"
> > > alone on the stage. This was the way it was at first, straight poetry
> > > readings... I miss that. Funny, though, for some reason [something in
> > > the water?] the audience seemed to *like* the poem.
> > >
> > > I'd really like to try an experiment: what would the audience think it
> > > I actually managed to *learn* something, and wrote a few new poems
> > > from some other vantage. I keep typing *might* and *maybe* so as not
> > > to fall into accusations of yet another "delusion". I'm well aware
> > > that I might not be able to pull this "learning" thing off. My last
> > > bout of college, in 1997, which Dark Queen talked me into so we'd have
> > > the grant/loan money to spend, I actually went around saying almost
> > > "destroyed" my poetry... ah yes, a tangled web, eh?
> > >
> > > Therefore, your defense mechanisms
> > > > are well-devoloped, and your responses codified:
> > > >
> > > > You tell everyone who tells you that you need to *work* at this
> > > > *poetry thing that they're *full of shit* because *your (sic) a poet*,
> > > > and therefore, your *sacred emanations* are divine pearls of
> > > > consciousness plucked from the flowing river of Maya.
> > >
> > > Yes, and hit an all-time low yesterday when I called Blue a
> > > "cocksucker" when he was trying to *help* me. Then I read one of his
> > > poems, and find that the poem I read is pretty much how I imagine my
> > > poems to be... except, get this: I liked his better than mine. A
> > > satori.
> >
> > It is cool when you find out how clever some people can be.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > So, it's time for something new... work. I still think I hit on some
> > > good lines here and there, I'm seeing glaringly clear the padding and
> > > filler--- yes, poetry is *not* rock and roll lyrics.
> >
> > Destroying "what first comes to mind" is a constant process.
> > Piecing together the remains is like brain surgery.
> >
> > >
> > > Can I manage to improve? God only knows...
> >
> > You are limited in that you are only so clever, only so much time,
> > only so much interest in it.
> >
> > In a choice between pizza and poetry sometimes pizza wins.
> >
> > > I want to, since good or
> > > bad, and obviously pretty sadly, my poetry is really all I have. And
> > > I've abused it to the point where I've trashed it just as much as
> > > everything else in my life.
> > >
> > > Time for a change. Hopefully some of you will at least wish me luck.
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> > >
> > > > I've seen this pantomime in all ages of novice writers.
> > > > Some people grow out of it early on, some never do.
> > > > I personally believe that it's better to grow out of it early on.
> > >
> > > Better late than never, I'm hoping.
> >
> > Keep your gig though~!
> >
> > >
> > > > And there's this fascination with the Beats and Buk, and anyone who
> > > > appears is if the whole writing thing is just a drunken frat kegger.
> > > > I'll bet it would freak you out to know how many times Jack revised
> > > > *On the Road*.
> > >
> > > Well, Kerouac, unlike Buk, one of the few things I know pretty much
> > > inside and out. I'm still reading and re-reading the same biographies,
> > > the same books I was reading 30 years ago. I think it's you who
> > > constantly writes "Read some poetry".
> > >
> > > So, I know pretty much plenty about Kerouac, Ginsberg, Patti Smith,
> > > Corso, Jagger-Richards, Frank O'Hara, Jim Morrison, Bob Dylan, and
> > > I've read lots of Edgar Allen Poe and Rimbaud, even a good bit of
> > > Dylan Thomas, at least the parts I could make sense of. So, that can
> > > wait, obviously.
> >
> > But listen to the sounds.
> >
> > Speak it out loud, eh?
> >
> > >
> > > What I'd like to know, if you don't mind, is what poet would you name
> > > *right now* to read, *first*? Name the best of the best, or your
> > > favorite, and I swear I'll go out an find some... or simply Google
> > > him/her.
> >
> > There are obviously lots of link sites.
> >
> > Zidebar is one.
> >
> > AAPC site has a lot of good links.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > But I'm admitting that the beatnik/rock-n-roll/whatever street I've
> > > been on since [wow] 1973 or something is not enough. Nor is the Lord
> > > Byron swagger without actually knowing what he did when he wasn't
> > > swaggering, but writing.
> >
> > Good.
> >
> > >
> > > > Anyway, I do realize that (your sudden display of humility
> > > > notwithstanding) this is supposed to be All About You, but:
> > > >
> > > > I (me mine) went to *Grade and High School* in Atlanta in the 1970's
> > > > and came away with a lifelong love of Dylan Thomas, WCW, Eliot
> > > > and Tennessee Williams;
> > > > where the fuck did you go to school?
> > >
> > > Carver High School, down in Columbus. Atlanta, though not perfect, was
> > > light years ahead of Columbus back then, and even moreso now. I moved
> > > to Atlanta in Spring of 1980, with Kathy, which is where both sides of
> > > her family were located.
> > >
> > > Amazing difference in two cities so close by. I swore I'd never return
> > > here... but I did. I swore we'd return to beloved Atlanta soon... that
> > > was close to 20 years ago. I had to do a lot of catching up in the
> > > years I was there. I found that even the rednecks, roofers and hookers
> > > were better educated than me. I learned a lot, and if I'd stayed, I
> > > would have been *forced* to continue to learn... Shadowville was easy,
> > > safe, and I took a job in a mill.
> > >
> > > REM sang "Don't Go Back To Rockville"... but as usual, I didn't
> > > listen.
> > >
> > > > That's a rhetorical question, I don't really need to know.
> > > >
> > > > jesus fuck,
> > > > what if we went to the same school?
> > >
> > > Are you from the North East side of Atlanta?
> > > You could have very
> > > likely seen me walking Piedmont Road, Monroe Ave., Cheshire Bridge,
> > > Buford Highway...
> > >
> > > I know this is a pretty silly question, but did you know Wes Sprunger,
> > > Jag, Cliff? Those were great kids, haven't seen them in so many
> > > years... hope they're well.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Sunglass.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > This battered old shell
> > > > > > > > > > > looks like a death mask.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Lucky or not I shall wear it
> > > > > > > > > > > as I walk into Phenix City.
> > > > > > > > > > > Though I cheated in my gambling
> > > > > > > > > > > I wound up broke anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > And I come, and I pay
> > > > > > > > > > > the zombie whores and walking dead.
> > > > > > > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > One more trip over that bridge
> > > > > > > > > > > to the kissing booth.
> > > > > > > > > > > Where there's smoke there may be fire
> > > > > > > > > > > and this time I got burned.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I walk this beach at midnight
> > > > > > > > > > > like a zen dharma beach bum.
> > > > > > > > > > > And I am saved, and I turn.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
> > > > > > > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > -Will Dockery (c)2003
> >
> > > > > > for such a manly man, you sure get jerked around like a puppet.
>
> Funny, I don't feel the *jerk* at all.

A decade ago... hard to belive how intense things were here back then... but I reckon /everything/ was.

--
Poetry and music of Will Dockery:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2012-11-17 18:24:50 UTC
Permalink
An older one from the archives, soon to be given the Shadowville All-Stars
make-over. Cooments, critique, suggestions are welcome:

Sunglass

This battered old shell
looks like a death mask.

Lucky or not I shall wear it
as I walk into Phenix City.
Though I cheated in my gambling
I wound up broke anyway.

And I come, and I pay
the zombie whores and walking dead.
While the dark lady in sunglasses
takes the halo from his clay head.

One more trip over that bridge
to the kissing booth.
Where there's smoke there may be fire
and this time I got burned.

I walk this beach at midnight
like a zen dharma beach bum.
And I am saved, and I turn.

I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
While the dark lady in sunglasses
takes the halo from his clay head.

-Will Dockery

--
Over You / Will Dockery & The Shadowville All-Stars:
http://youtu.be/4rvCp_xzWH8
Will Dockery
2012-11-17 18:55:00 UTC
Permalink
"ggamble" bitter-***@liar.net wrote in message
news:***@giganews.com...
>
> On 17-Nov-2012, "Will Dockery" wrote:
>
>
>> I
>> I
>> I my
>> I
>>
>> I I
>> I
>>
>> I
>>
>> I I
>>
>> I my
>
>
> malignant self worship

Well thanks for what passes for critique around here, Gary... sorry about
your writer's block, but at least you're trying.

--
Over You / Will Dockery & The Shadowville All-Stars:
http://youtu.be/4rvCp_xzWH8
Will Dockery
2012-11-17 19:35:59 UTC
Permalink
"ggamble" lying-***@bitter-burnout.net wrote in message
news:***@giganews.com...
>
> Kathy S. Fuller
> Kathy S. Fuller July 27, 1960 - August 2, 2004 COLUMBUS, GA - Funeral
> services will be held 11 a.m. Wednesday, Aug. 4, at Striffler-Hamby
> Mortuary Macon Road Chapel. The family will receive friends at the
> funeral home this evening from 6 to 8 p.m. Kathy S. Fuller, 44, of
> Columbus, died Sunday, Aug. 1, at the Columbus Hospice House. Mrs.
> Fuller was born July 27, 1960 in Atlanta, Ga., and had lived in
> Columbus most of her life. Survivors include her husband, Frank Fuller
> of Columbus; a daughter, Sarah Dockery of Columbus; a son, Clay
> Dockery and his wife, Sara of New York City, N.Y.; mother, Norma Kemp
> and her husband, Fred of Columbus; father, Marcus Strickland of
> Columbus; a sister, Victoria French of Columbus; an uncle, Ralph McCoy
> of Columbus; and a nephew, Troy Combs of Columbus. In lieu of flowers,
> donations may be made to Columbus Hospice House, 7020 Moon Road,
> Columbus, GA 31909.

Yes, eight years ago, feels like a few minutes.

Add with your earlier post:

> > "We know."
>
> http://www.homes.com/Home-Prices/ID-700019867815/2108-15TH-AVE/

Wow... that brings back some great memories, Gary... that's known as the
"Pumpkinbottom" district of Phenix City Alabama. I sure loved that place...

...Do you stalk much?

--
Over You / Will Dockery & The Shadowville All-Stars:
http://youtu.be/4rvCp_xzWH8
Will Dockery
2012-11-18 12:33:04 UTC
Permalink
On Sunday, November 18, 2012 6:55:27 AM UTC-5, Hieronymous707 wrote:
>
> I thought i just did. I think the reason Gamble posts Kathy's obit is
> because you specifically weren't mentioned in it, > and rubbing your nose
> in it repeatedly is an apparent effort to teach you some sort of lesson in
> humility. Gamble's a
> troll with good intentions. At least that's what it looks like from my
> house. Your mileage may vary.

Oh, okay... well I don't even know who wrote that obituary, possibly her new
husband Frank, who might have left me out for obvious reasons.

I don't mind his reposting Kathy's obituary at all, though, since we all
want to be remembered, and she wants to be remembered, I'm certain of that.

"He's not gone as long as we... remember." -Dr. Leonard McCoy

--
Music & Poetry of Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Hieronymous707
2012-11-18 12:43:29 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 18, 7:33 am, "Will Dockery" <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, November 18, 2012 6:55:27 AM UTC-5, Hieronymous707 wrote:
>
> > I thought i just did. I think the reason Gamble posts Kathy's obit is
> > because you specifically weren't mentioned in it, > and rubbing your nose
> > in it repeatedly is an apparent effort to teach you some sort of lesson in
> > humility. Gamble's a
> > troll with good intentions. At least that's what it looks like from my
> > house. Your mileage may vary.
>
> Oh, okay... well I don't even know who wrote that obituary, possibly her new
> husband Frank, who might have left me out for obvious reasons.
>
> I don't mind his reposting Kathy's obituary at all, though, since we all
> want to be remembered, and she wants to be remembered, I'm certain of that.
>
> "He's not gone as long as we... remember." -Dr. Leonard McCoy
>
> --
> Music & Poetry of Will Dockery & Friends:http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery

I call bullshit. You have no idea what she wants. If you did, you'd
still have been married to her when she passed, and it would have been
your responsibility to write the obit. Dead people don't care about
being remembered. Only living people care ... about anything. So, you
want to be remembered. I'm certain of that because the reposting of
her obit only serves to draw attention to you, and not her memory.
Will Dockery
2012-11-18 13:17:02 UTC
Permalink
On Sunday, November 18, 2012 7:43:29 AM UTC-5, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> On Nov 18, 7:33 am, "Will Dockery" wrote:
>
> > "He's not gone as long as we... remember." -Dr. Leonard McCoy
>
> You have no idea what she wants.

I say everyone wants to be remembered, and you have no way to prove me
wrong, do you?

--
Music & Poetry of Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2012-11-18 13:20:42 UTC
Permalink
"Chuck Lysaght" <***@veryfast.biz> wrote in message
news:bf132972-1381-4454-a31f-***@googlegroups.com...
> Gamble is a troll with good intentions? Damn. You are fucking delusional,
> Corey.

We've noticed that Corey feels a certain need to "kiss up" to Gamble from
time-to-time... in that way Corey most reminds me of our dearly departed
Barbara's Cat.

--
Music & Poetry of Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2012-11-19 04:00:48 UTC
Permalink
"Hieronymous707" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6ffc780d-fbe6-4a9b-915d-***@p22g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
>On Nov 18, 7:50 am, Chuck Lysaght <***@veryfast.biz>
wrote:
>
>> Gamble is a troll with good intentions? Damn. You are fucking delusional,
>> Corey.
>
> Really? Please explain what you mean by "fucking" delusional, Chuck.
> Is that different from simply delusional? Do you add "fucking" for
> emphasis? Does that mean I'm really, really delusional as opposed to
> just delusional? Is that your professional opinion, Chuck? LOL.

Well several of us are quite nonplussed by anyone who sees "good" intentions
in the "work" Gamble does here.

Really, please explain... and be specific.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2012-11-19 04:13:37 UTC
Permalink
Hieronymous707 wrote:
>
> Dead people don't care about
> being remembered. Only living people care ... about anything.

With all due respect, you're talking out your arse... you know no more about
what "dead people" want than any of the rest of us.

Certainly not the ones I know.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2012-11-19 23:02:34 UTC
Permalink
"ggamble" bitter-***@burnout.net wrote:
>
> Like you see the kids

<snip>

Your creepy obsession with my life and family is noted, Gary.

--
"KALEIDOSCOPE" with sculptor, artist, musician Charles Fowler
http://youtu.be/hHWM3xu9I0w
Will Dockery
2012-11-20 01:40:26 UTC
Permalink
"Peter J Ross" wrote:
>
> I'm surprised that neither Sarah nor Clay changed their surname.

Why would you think they'd do that?

And, while we're on the subject, your stalking obsession with my life and
family is noted, PJR.

--
Twilight Girl / Will Dockery & Henry Conley:
http://youtu.be/BYETTK16jQI
Will Dockery
2012-11-20 01:42:13 UTC
Permalink
"Peter J Ross" wrote:
>
> To be a complete unknown?

Do tell, PJR... you're probably even less known than ggamble, who at least
will be remembered for, if anything, his "Pete The Dog" poem.

--
Twilight Girl / Will Dockery & Henry Conley:
http://youtu.be/BYETTK16jQI
Hieronymous707
2012-11-20 16:28:57 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 19, 8:49 pm, "Will Dockery" <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Peter J Ross" wrote:
>
> > To be a complete unknown?
>
> Do tell, PJR... you're probably even less known than ggamble, who at least
> will be remembered for, if anything, his "Pete The Dog" poem.

LOL. Just to show you how two people can look at something and see it
differently, I totally took Peter's remark as a Bob Dylan reference
ala, "a complete unknown, Just like a rolling stone".
Will Dockery
2012-12-11 04:26:35 UTC
Permalink
"Chuck Lysaght" <***@veryfast.biz> wrote in message
news:bf132972-1381-4454-a31f-***@googlegroups.com...
> Gamble is a troll with good intentions? Damn. You are fucking delusional,
> Corey.

That was a pretty silly statement, true.

If anything is certain here it's that ggamble is a troll of the malicious
type.

He'd work well if he migrated to Topix.com, and in fact pioneedred that type
shenanigan, as I posted earlier, elsewhere:

The "problem and animosity" seems to be a widespread problem with anonymous
trolls such as you, hiding behind fake names and posting lies and smears
against people.

Unfortunately for y'all trolls, I fight back and correct your lies and
misrepresentations about me... and label you for the trash you are. Truth
hurts, eh?

The fact is that I'm just a real person posting here, while anonymous trolls
such as you anonymous trolls, create these threads apparently from some
obsessed agenda they have to attempt to smear my name, libel, and otherwise
misrepresent me. And from further reading, it appears to be a sort of
Topix.com phenomenon that some don't seem to be able to deal with as well as
I have.

For example:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/20/us/small-town-gossip-moves-to-the-web-anonymous-and-vicious.html

"...a social media Web site called Topix, where they write and read
startlingly negative posts, all cloaked in anonymity, about one another. And
in Dee's Place, people are not happy... called Topix a 'cesspool of
character assassination.' [...] In rural America, older, poorer remote
population lagged the rest of the country in embracing the Internet, the
growing use of social media is raising familiar concerns about bullying and
privacy... hubs of unsubstantiated gossip, stirring widespread resentment in
communities where ties run deep, memories run long and anonymity is a novel
concept. 'Something about rural culture seems to make people want to have
conversations in public,' Topix, a site lightly trafficked in cities, enjoys
a dedicated and growing following across the Ozarks, Appalachia and much of
the rural South, establishing an unexpected niche in communities of a few
hundred or few thousand people..."

And, of course, there's a difference between free speech and libel. The
posts made here and elsewhere on Topix.com by the trolls you asked about
generally tend to fall into the latter category.

--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2012-12-25 06:29:41 UTC
Permalink
Hieronymous707 wrote:
>
> You have no idea what she wants. If you did, you'd
>
> still have been married to her

Nope, I knew she wanted me to leave, so I left.

See how simple these things are... learning much, are you?

Here we are in 1986, when she asked me to stay:

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/63313017
Will Dockery
2013-02-20 21:20:20 UTC
Permalink
"Chuck Lysaght" <***@veryfast.biz> wrote in message
news:bf132972-1381-4454-a31f-***@googlegroups.com...
> Gamble is a troll

He sure has been quiet lately...

--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & The Shadowville All-Stars:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2012-11-20 15:55:34 UTC
Permalink
On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 10:45:31 AM UTC-5, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> LOL. You've always been your favorite subject, Will.

You watch my television show, though.

Do you agree that I manage to almost always keep the subject on the life and
art of my interview subjects?

I have to say I consider that a feather in my cap...

--
De Performance van 'De Handtekening van Zorro'
http://web.archive.org/web/20041117085027/http://www.kannibaal.nl/shadowville.htm
Will Dockery
2012-12-05 05:05:30 UTC
Permalink
"Hieronymous707" <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Don't you find people who feel the constant need to compliment
> themselves annoying?

No, you're cool with me, Corey.

--
Will Dockery & The Shadowville All-Stars:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2012-11-20 17:15:34 UTC
Permalink
Hieronymous707 wrote:
>
> Okay. No problem, except that I can't seem to figure out what you mean
>
> by "making a bit of self-awareness" as opposed to just being a bit
>
> more self-aware, a context of terminology with which I am a bit more
>
> familiar.

It might mean something very similar, I suspect.

I looked up Lynn Hansen, my friend who used to travel to visit, who passed
away in April 1995, and found this for starters:

http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv87564

Historical Note

"Lynn Hansen was born to Ralph and Lillian Hansen on July 5, 1958 in Provo,
Utah. He received a degree in communication from De Anza Junior College in
Cupertino, California, and worked in the television industry in Idaho,
Alabama, and New Mexico. He was active in the underground comic scene as a
critic and reviewer. Hansen became a Beatles fan early in his life,
according to his parents, and spent a great deal of time working on a
manuscript on the group. A paper entitled "The Beatles without Paul," about
the Paul McCartney "death hoax" (1978), showed his early interest in writing
about the group. Hansen died April 9, 1995, in Roswell, New Mexico, with his
manuscript still unfinished. His friend, Steve Willis, completed the editing
of this work, entitled Number 9, and oversaw its distribution..."

--
"Kaleidoscope" with guest artist Ricky Greer
http://youtu.be/Obpz5hEa-Vg
Will Dockery
2012-11-22 17:46:14 UTC
Permalink
Hieronymous707 wrote:
>
> Be original. Fuck off on your own for once.

The original sin?
Will Dockery
2012-11-28 19:29:42 UTC
Permalink
"Hieronymous707" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:560beae2-fbac-45c7-bb80-***@googlegroups.com...
>
> Gamble posts Kathy's obit is because you specifically weren't mentioned in
> it

<snip Corey's usual BS>

Well, anyone who has been married, divorced, remarried, all that should
understand why a new husband would not list the former husband in an
obituary for his wife, it just really shouldn't be surprising, or even an
issue... just the way real people in the real world do things.

But... looking over the obituary again a decade later, I noticed with a bit
of surprise, that Kathy's /brother/ was left out of the obituary. I can also
understand that the person writing the obituary might leave a person who
dies almost two decades before he met Kathy might accidentally leave him out
if he had never heard of Tracy, but I really doubt that the topic of "Tracy
Harley" had never come up:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/obits/T7IK8Q8CPI2TJJ6FU

Tracy George Harley born December 12 1958 died December 27 1986.

Finding almost zero information on my old friend and Brother In-Law Tracy
Harley, I'm compiling this short Obituary for the internet, so others
searching for him will have a place to add their thoughts and information.
Harley was born in Atlanta Georgia, spent most of his life in Columbus,
Georgia, a graduate of Hardaway High School, and various colleges, and a
Veteran of the Navy.

Anyway, glad you brought this subject up, and happy to clear up your
confusion and misrepresentation, Corey.

--
Under The Radar / Will Dockery & The Shadowville All-Stars:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery/song/12609809
Will Dockery
2012-12-01 10:31:14 UTC
Permalink
On Friday, November 30, 2012 1:55:07 AM UTC-5, ggamble wrote:
>
> > bizarre obsession with my life and family?
>
> That would explain why you're sifting through 8 year old posts trying to
>
> find out where I lived and:

"ggamble" lying-***@bitter-burnout.net wrote in message
> news:***@giganews.com...
>>
>> Kathy S. Fuller
>> Kathy S. Fuller July 27, 1960 - August 2, 2004 COLUMBUS, GA - Funeral
>> services will be held 11 a.m. Wednesday, Aug. 4, at Striffler-Hamby
>> Mortuary Macon Road Chapel. The family will receive friends at the
>> funeral home this evening from 6 to 8 p.m. Kathy S. Fuller, 44, of
>> Columbus, died Sunday, Aug. 1, at the Columbus Hospice House. Mrs.
>> Fuller was born July 27, 1960 in Atlanta, Ga., and had lived in
>> Columbus most of her life. Survivors include her husband, Frank Fuller
>> of Columbus; a daughter, Sarah Dockery of Columbus; a son, Clay
>> Dockery and his wife, Sara of New York City, N.Y.; mother, Norma Kemp
>> and her husband, Fred of Columbus; father, Marcus Strickland of
>> Columbus; a sister, Victoria French of Columbus; an uncle, Ralph McCoy
>> of Columbus; and a nephew, Troy Combs of Columbus. In lieu of flowers,
>> donations may be made to Columbus Hospice House, 7020 Moon Road,
>> Columbus, GA 31909.
>
> Yes, eight years ago, feels like a few minutes.
>
> Add with your earlier post:
>
>> > "We know."

http://www.homes.com/Home-Prices/ID-700019867815/2108-15TH-AVE/

> Wow... that brings back some great memories, Gary... that's known as the
> "Pumpkinbottom" district of Phenix City Alabama. I sure loved that
> place...
>
> ...Do you stalk much?

"We know."

--
Over You / Will Dockery & The Shadowville All-Stars:
http://youtu.be/4rvCp_xzWH8
Will Dockery
2013-02-19 05:09:49 UTC
Permalink
"ggamble" ***@burnout.net wrote in message
news:***@giganews.com...
>
>> >> Survivors include her husband

I just noticed... whatever happened to ggasfly ggamble?

--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2012-11-19 22:19:49 UTC
Permalink
"Peter J Ross" <***@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Kathy S. Fuller
>> Kathy S. Fuller July 27, 1960 - August 2, 2004 COLUMBUS, GA - Funeral
>> services will be held 11 a.m. Wednesday, Aug. 4, at Striffler-Hamby
>> Mortuary Macon Road Chapel. The family will receive friends at the
>> funeral home this evening from 6 to 8 p.m. Kathy S. Fuller, 44, of
>> Columbus, died Sunday, Aug. 1, at the Columbus Hospice House. Mrs.
>> Fuller was born July 27, 1960 in Atlanta, Ga., and had lived in
>> Columbus most of her life. Survivors include her husband, Frank Fuller
>> of Columbus; a daughter, Sarah Dockery of Columbus; a son, Clay
>> Dockery and his wife, Sara of New York City, N.Y.; mother, Norma Kemp
>> and her husband, Fred of Columbus; father, Marcus Strickland of
>> Columbus; a sister, Victoria French of Columbus; an uncle, Ralph McCoy
>> of Columbus; and a nephew, Troy Combs of Columbus. In lieu of flowers,
>> donations may be made to Columbus Hospice House, 7020 Moon Road,
>> Columbus, GA 31909.
>
> How strange that the man who posted for weeks and weeks and weeks
> about her

Well, to be more accurate, PJR, I wrote about Kathy for decades, since we
met and were married in 1978.

In fact, still do write about her from time-to-time, as a character in songs
and stories.

--
"KALEIDOSCOPE" with guest, sculptor, artist, musician Charles Fowler
http://youtu.be/hHWM3xu9I0w
DoubleV
2012-11-17 20:37:27 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 13:24:50 -0500, Will Dockery wrote:

> An older one from the archives, soon to be given the Shadowville All-Stars
> make-over. Cooments, critique, suggestions are welcome:
...
> takes the halo from his clay head.
...
> takes the halo from his clay head.

I don't like this line as it doesn't mesh
the whole poem it's first person possesive?
and in this line you refer to someone else
(except you never talk about them)
which leaves me hanging and confused
Will Dockery
2012-11-17 21:26:11 UTC
Permalink
"DoubleV" <***@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:k88si7$gfj$***@dont-email.me...
> On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 13:24:50 -0500, Will Dockery wrote:
>
>> An older one from the archives, soon to be given the Shadowville
>> All-Stars
>> make-over. Cooments, critique, suggestions are welcome:
> ...
>> takes the halo from his clay head.
> ...
>> takes the halo from his clay head.
>
> I don't like this line as it doesn't mesh
> the whole poem it's first person possesive?
> and in this line you refer to someone else
> (except you never talk about them)
> which leaves me hanging and confused

Thanks, Vic...

I've seen that the line stuuters with "clay head"... while "takes the halo
from his head" reads smoother,

I see what you mean, but what I need to convey is that the Dark Lady is
somewhere else, with someone else, in that moment on time.

--
Poetry and music of Will Dockery:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2012-11-17 21:58:11 UTC
Permalink
"ggamble" ***@burnout.net wrote in message
news:qN-***@giganews.com...
> On 17-Nov-2012, "Will Dockery" wrote:
>
>> I see what you mean, but what I need to convey is that the Dark Lady is
>> somewhere else, with someone else, in that moment on time.
>
>
> If you looked long enough, perhaps you could find a literate person to
> help
> you convey what you mean.
>
> But, since AL and GA are at the low end of the literacy per capita scale,
> I
> wish you luck.

Thanks Gary, I've got it covered.

--
Music & poetry by Will Dockery:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2012-11-18 13:33:30 UTC
Permalink
Hieronymous707 wrote:
>Chuck Lysaght wrote:
>
> > Gamble is a troll with good intentions? Damn. You are fucking
> > delusional, Corey.
>
>
>
> Really? Please explain what you mean by "fucking" delusional, Chuck.
>
> Is that different from simply delusional? Do you add "fucking" for
>
> emphasis? Does that mean I'm really, really delusional as opposed to
>
> just delusional? Is that your professional opinion, Chuck? LOL.

No, looks to me like you're just trying to defend Gamble, which is no
surprise, Corey.

--
Over You / Will Dockery & The Shadowville All-Stars:
http://youtu.be/4rvCp_xzWH8
Will Dockery
2012-11-19 04:22:52 UTC
Permalink
"Hieronymous707" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5c47ffa3-bbee-4b3b-a55e-***@googlegroups.com...
> I can't imagine why I would do that. You and I have met. i thought we had
> at least some sense of understanding of
> who the other person is. I wouldn't know Gamble to bump into. Please
> explain why you think I'm defending Gamble,
> and why my doing so comes as no surprise to you. I really have no idea.
> Thanks.

Sorry about that, I reckon I was just being paranoid, although, as Harlan
Ellison wrote:

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean the whole world isn't out to get
you."

--
Music & Poetry of Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2012-11-20 16:31:31 UTC
Permalink
On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:10:26 AM UTC-5, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> On Nov 20, 10:55 am, "Will Dockery" <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 10:45:31 AM UTC-5, Hieronymous707 wrote:
>
> > > LOL. You've always been your favorite subject, Will.
>
> >
>
> > You watch my television show, though.
>
> >
>
> > Do you agree that I manage to almost always keep the subject on the life
> > and
>
> > art of my interview subjects?
>
> >
>
> > I have to say I consider that a feather in my cap...
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > De Performance van 'De Handtekening van
> > Zorro'http://web.archive.org/web/20041117085027/http://www.kannibaal.nl/sha...
>
>
>
> LOL. OMG! Will, look at what you wrote. Again you compliment yourself.
>
> Don't you find people who feel the constant need to compliment
>
> themselves annoying? No matter how good they really are, they're never
>
> quite as good as they say they are. Plus, it's really hard to
>
> compliment someone who's always complimenting themselves because they
>
> never seem to appreciate the compliment. Take me, for example. Who
>
> else have you met from Usenet, or anywhere for that matter, who's
>
> taken the time, made the effort, incurred the expense, and gone so far
>
> as I have to actually meet you face to face? I never got the sense
>
> that you ever appreciated that as a compliment. I feel like just
>
> another feather in your cap. Sorry. Nothing personal.

I do appreciate you and your friendship, Corey... and I didn't intend to
"brag", just making a bit of self-awareness.

To answer your question about friends travelling to meet me, offhand I can
think of two, both dead now, and both missed very much.

Lynn Hansen, who I met through the underground comix-zines-small press mail
art scene of the 1980s, travelled from Idaho to visit me, and liked the Deep
South so much wound up moving to Birmingham in part so we could get together
more often. Lynn passed away in the 1990s, after falling into a diabetic
coma suddenly.

Rick Howe, also from the same small press/poetry chapbook scene, came on a
visit here, and never left... found a job in town, moved in with P.D. Wilson
and Carol Horn and stayed for almost a decade. Rick's sad death came in
Arkansas, of a stroke/heart attack.

There are others of similar and not lesser note, such as the hippie poet
chick who caused me to go out and rent my first P. O. Box, after I came home
one afternoon with my wife and two toddling children, to find her camped out
on my front porch... she'd read my poetry (a chapbook with my street address
listed in it) and decided that we were soul mates. That took a little fancy
footwork to manage, talk about a "Dockery Dance".

Interestingly, this address that Raine found in the chapbook and followed
right to my door, is the same old one in Phenix City Gamble has been posting
the link to here for the last day or so... possibly from the same ancient
source Raine found it at!

Anyway, this story could go on, but yes, it has happened.

But no, I don't take it for granted that you went the distance and we became
real life friends... sorry that you thought so, Corey.

--
De Performance van 'De Handtekening van Zorro'
http://web.archive.org/web/20041117085027/http://www.kannibaal.nl/shadowville.htm
Hieronymous707
2012-11-20 16:52:36 UTC
Permalink
Okay. No problem, except that I can't seem to figure out what you mean
by "making a bit of self-awareness" as opposed to just being a bit
more self-aware, a context of terminology with which I am a bit more
familiar.
Will Dockery
2012-11-17 22:00:07 UTC
Permalink
On Saturday, November 17, 2012 3:10:55 PM UTC-5, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Not even an honorable mention. That's a shame.

Honorable mention to whom?

--
Music & poetry by Will Dockery:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery

> Sunglass
>
> This battered old shell
> looks like a death mask.
>
> Lucky or not I shall wear it
> as I walk into Phenix City.
> Though I cheated in my gambling
> I wound up broke anyway.
>
> And I come, and I pay
> the zombie whores and walking dead.
> While the dark lady in sunglasses
> takes the halo from his clay head.
>
> One more trip over that bridge
> to the kissing booth.
> Where there's smoke there may be fire
> and this time I got burned.
>
> I walk this beach at midnight
> like a zen dharma beach bum.
> And I am saved, and I turn.
>
> I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
> While the dark lady in sunglasses
> takes the halo from his clay head.
>
> -Will Dockery
Will Dockery
2012-11-17 23:34:53 UTC
Permalink
An older one from the archives, soon to be given the Shadowville All-Stars
make-over. Cooments, critique, suggestions are welcome:

Sunglass
>
> This battered old shell
> looks like a death mask.
>
> Lucky or not I shall wear it
> as I walk into Phenix City.
> Though I cheated in my gambling
> I wound up broke anyway.
>
> And I come, and I pay
> the zombie whores and walking dead.
> While the dark lady in sunglasses
> takes the halo from his clay head.
>
> One more trip over that bridge
> to the kissing booth.
> Where there's smoke there may be fire
> and this time I got burned.
>
> I walk this beach at midnight
> like a zen dharma beach bum.
> And I am saved, and I turn.
>
> I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
> While the dark lady in sunglasses
> takes the halo from his clay head.
>
> -Will Dockery

--
Over You / Will Dockery & The Shadowville All-Stars:
http://youtu.be/4rvCp_xzWH8
Will Dockery
2012-11-18 18:54:58 UTC
Permalink
ggamble wrote:
> "Will Dockery" wrote:
>
> > Oh, okay... well I don't even know who wrote that obituary, possibly her
>
> > new
>
> > husband Frank, who might have left me out for obvious reasons.
>
> left me out for obvious reasons.
>
> Those obvious reasons are obvious to everyone but you.

Well, as far as I know I'm the only person here that was actually there, so
my perception of the obvious will be different than that of casual readers
and stalkers such as you, Gary.

You know what I mean?

--
Truck Stop Woman / Will Dockery & Henry Conley:
http://youtu.be/wGiuONOUeFk
Will Dockery
2012-11-18 21:49:14 UTC
Permalink
"ggamble" ***@ofthenam.net wrote:
>
> You're clearly getting rattled.

The old Roy Orbison song "Rattled"... now that was some fine poetry!

--
Truck Stop Woman / Will Dockery & Henry Conley:
http://youtu.be/wGiuONOUeFk
Will Dockery
2012-11-20 06:12:00 UTC
Permalink
ggamble wrote:
>
> Could you please continue

Absolutely... there's no writer's block on this side of the fence, my little
friend.

--
Twilight Girl / Will Dockery & Henry Conley:
http://youtu.be/BYETTK16jQI
ggamble
2012-11-20 17:31:35 UTC
Permalink
>


On 19-Nov-2012, "Will Dockery" <***@gmail.com> wrote:

>I'm posting some of these from the "New Google Groups", as you seem to be.

--
Will Dockery
2012-11-21 04:59:57 UTC
Permalink
ggamble wrote:
>
> Who knows?
>
> Who cares?

Obviously you care a great deal, judging from the number of desperately
sweaty posts you've posted to me over the last couple of days, Gary.

Now, back on topic, the "Sunglass" poem, comments & critque are welcomed, as
always:

Sunglass

> This battered old shell
> looks like a death mask.
>
> Lucky or not I shall wear it
> as I walk into Phenix City.
> Though I cheated in my gambling
> I wound up broke anyway.
>
> And I come, and I pay
> the zombie whores and walking dead.
> While the dark lady in sunglasses
> takes the halo from his clay head.
>
> One more trip over that bridge
> to the kissing booth.
> Where there's smoke there may be fire
> and this time I got burned.
>
> I walk this beach at midnight
> like a zen dharma beach bum.
> And I am saved, and I turn.
>
> I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
> While the dark lady in sunglasses
> takes the halo from his clay head.
>
> -Will Dockery

--
Poetry & music from Will Dockery & friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2012-11-21 15:06:29 UTC
Permalink
"Hieronymous707" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:650c72f6-38f1-4578-9846-***@l18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...
>On Nov 21, 9:39 am, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 9:24:17 AM UTC-5, Hieronymous707 wrote:
>
>> > Fuck off, Will.
>
>> You first.
>
> Be original. Fuck off on your own for once.

Okay.

This is just me getting the Last Word.

Thanks, and have a nice day.

--
Gone Too Far / Will Dockery & The Shadowville All-Stars:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery/song/11596860
Hieronymous707
2012-11-21 15:11:47 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 21, 10:06 am, "Will Dockery" <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Hieronymous707" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:650c72f6-38f1-4578-9846-***@l18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...
>
> >On Nov 21, 9:39 am, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 9:24:17 AM UTC-5, Hieronymous707 wrote:
>
> >> > Fuck off, Will.
>
> >> You first.
>
> > Be original. Fuck off on your own for once.
>
> Okay.
>
> This is just me getting the Last Word.
>
> Thanks, and have a nice day.

LOL. Yea for you, Will! Well done!
Such a good boy. Now fuck off.
Will Dockery
2012-11-21 15:21:39 UTC
Permalink
"ggamble" <***@obsesso.net> wrote:
>
> Clearly, You're either dizzy from doing the dockery dance, or you're drunk
> again.

http://youtu.be/wGiuONOUeFk

And there you were, pretending you haven't watched the video... heh.
Will Dockery
2012-11-21 16:45:12 UTC
Permalink
"ggamble" <***@obsesso.net> wrote in message
news:***@giganews.com...
>
> It's not really magic mushroom time, so maybe you're on meth or crack.

"I'll be in my basement room with a needle and a spoon, and another girl to
take my pain away." -Mick Jagger/Keith Richards

The Truck Stop Woman takes care of all those arrangements, back at Budget
Motel:

http://youtu.be/wGiuONOUeFk
Will Dockery
2012-11-21 20:02:40 UTC
Permalink
Peter J Ross wrote:
>
> What, no dwarf v catfish mud wrestling?

That's live on 42nd Street.

--
Poetry & music from Will Dockery & friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2012-11-28 13:19:19 UTC
Permalink
On Saturday, November 17, 2012 3:10:55 PM UTC-5, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Not even an honorable mention. That's a shame.

Okay, I think I may get this now.
Hieronymous707
2012-11-28 13:38:00 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 28, 8:19 am, "Will Dockery" <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, November 17, 2012 3:10:55 PM UTC-5, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> > Not even an honorable mention. That's a shame.
>
> Okay, I think I may get this now.

Hut. Hut. Hut.

Sorry, just thinking about
sunglasses there for a sec.
Never mind me. Go on
about your business as if
I wasn't even hearing you.
Will Dockery
2012-11-28 20:23:55 UTC
Permalink
ggamble wrote:
>
> So, in other words, you don't understand why a new husband would not list
>
> the former husband in an
>
> obituary for his wife

You're the one obsessing over it, Gary... so why not keep stalking into my
personal life until you can make up your own answer?

After all, you obviously... can't get me... out of your thoughts.

Heh.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2012-12-07 18:10:58 UTC
Permalink
Continuing the archiving of online biographical and other information on my
friend Tracy Harley, who passed away in 1986:

> http://www.topix.com/forum/news/obits/T7IK8Q8CPI2TJJ6FU
>
> Tracy George Harley born December 12 1958 died December 27 1986.
>
> Harley was born in Atlanta Georgia, spent most of his life in Columbus,
>
> Georgia, a graduate of Hardaway High School, and various colleges, and a
>
> Veteran of the Navy.

http://alt.books.beatgeneration.narkive.com/QSNdtAR2/goodnight-sweet-prince-hunter-thompson-1937-2005

"...Tracy Harley, was proclaimed by the coroner on Dec 27 1986 to have
commited suicide by a shotgun blast to the chest. Never mind that the big
rifle was not logically able to be fired "solo" to that position, Tracy
being quite a small guy [...] in fact
was the last person remaining at the party he'd thrown on Christmas
night in his loft above the Hardware store he ran in downtown
Shadowville."

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the
process he does not become a monster. And when you
look into the abyss, the abyss also looks into you" -
Nietzsche, From Beyond Good and Evil (1886)

--
Under The Radar / Will Dockery & The Shadowville All-Stars:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery/song/12609809
Will Dockery
2013-05-29 11:49:26 UTC
Permalink
"Tom Bishop" <***@sbc-elidethis-global.net> wrote in message news:<40ccd2e3$0$21981$***@news.usenetguide.com>...
> > "Will Dockery", remarked:
> > > ggamble wrote:
>> > > Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >I *did* make it this far, as short a distance it arguably is, against
> > > > >pretty much impossible odds. Grade and High School here in the 1970s
> > > > >for whatever reason seemed intent on smashing this "poetry" idea I
> > > > >had, for probably exactly the reasons most of you hate me: I did it on
> > > > >my own, and didn't [don't] tend to listen to "sage advice"...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Like most of your so-called poetry, this trainwreck of a
> > > > self-involved. confessional sentence attempt makes no sense.
> > >
> > > Well, I don't expect to change my spots immediately. Perhaps I won't
> > > be able to pull it off at all. I'm kinda old, y'know... but I want to
> > > try.
> > >
> > > > I think it means that you've had this egocentric, delusional
> > > > *idea* that you were a *poet* for a long, long time and you're used to
> > > > people laughing at you about it.
> > >
> > > I've written as much several times here. I even backed it up with a
> > > psuedo scholarly book that compares Rimbaud to Jim Morrison. *giggle*
> > >
> > > There was this French "Vouyo" [probably not the right spelling, and
> > > I'm of course too lazy to go to the shed to look it up] This "person"
> > > walked a tightrope between poet and clown, and crossed to both sides
> > > often. Of course, I said "That's me! I'm a part of some great French
> > > poetic tradition!" Never mind that the French love Jerry Lewis. You're
> > > probably a hundred times more familar with this "Vouyo" than I am...

Remembering Ray Manzerek and of course then The Doors he was connected to for his entire life, I also began to think of my connections, and my influence by these men and their poetry and music... and remembered The Vouyo, and that I never fully explored all that, yet.

So here I am a decade later, as the influences and original voices die away, as our will one day soon follow. We make sense of it all yet?

> > > Do you consider Rimbaud good? Just asking. Obviously I'm well aware of
> > > Jim Morrison's status... I suppose he at least had the good sense to
> > > die young... at my age, I suppose a lot of my "fans" do show up for a
> > > good laugh... smiling faces *do* come across as happy, appreciative
> > > audience members, y'know.
> > >
> > > I've done the "Morrison" crazy charisma thing for a long long time...
> > > certainly people attend a Will Dockery set because they can expect the
> > > unexpected... I *do* hear that I'm "good" a lot... but I think it's
> > > more to do with my stunningly handsome stage moves than the poetry...
> > > and, of course, for the last year or two the finest musicians around
> > > show up to back me, and catch some of the drama of it all. Two weeks
> > > ago, not a single musician showed, and I read "Left Handed Summer"
> > > alone on the stage. This was the way it was at first, straight poetry
> > > readings... I miss that. Funny, though, for some reason [something in
> > > the water?] the audience seemed to *like* the poem.
> > >
> > > I'd really like to try an experiment: what would the audience think it
> > > I actually managed to *learn* something, and wrote a few new poems
> > > from some other vantage. I keep typing *might* and *maybe* so as not
> > > to fall into accusations of yet another "delusion". I'm well aware
> > > that I might not be able to pull this "learning" thing off. My last
> > > bout of college, in 1997, which Dark Queen talked me into so we'd have
> > > the grant/loan money to spend, I actually went around saying almost
> > > "destroyed" my poetry... ah yes, a tangled web, eh?
> > >
> > > Therefore, your defense mechanisms
> > > > are well-developed, and your responses codified:
> > > >
> > > > You tell everyone who tells you that you need to *work* at this
> > > > *poetry thing that they're *full of shit* because *your (sic) a poet*,
> > > > and therefore, your *sacred emanations* are divine pearls of
> > > > consciousness plucked from the flowing river of Maya.
> > >
> > > Yes, and hit an all-time low yesterday when I called Blue a
> > > "cocksucker" when he was trying to *help* me. Then I read one of his
> > > poems, and find that the poem I read is pretty much how I imagine my
> > > poems to be... except, get this: I liked his better than mine. A
> > > satori.
> >
> > It is cool when you find out how clever some people can be.

Makes life that much more interesting, yes.

> > > So, it's time for something new... work. I still think I hit on some
> > > good lines here and there, I'm seeing glaringly clear the padding and
> > > filler--- yes, poetry is *not* rock and roll lyrics.
> >
> > Destroying "what first comes to mind" is a constant process.
> > Piecing together the remains is like brain surgery.
> >
> > >
> > > Can I manage to improve? God only knows...
> >
> > You are limited in that you are only so clever, only so much time,
> > only so much interest in it.
> >
> > In a choice between pizza and poetry sometimes pizza wins.
> >
> > > I want to, since good or
> > > bad, and obviously pretty sadly, my poetry is really all I have. And
> > > I've abused it to the point where I've trashed it just as much as
> > > everything else in my life.
> > >
> > > Time for a change. Hopefully some of you will at least wish me luck.
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> > >
> > > > I've seen this pantomime in all ages of novice writers.
> > > > Some people grow out of it early on, some never do.
> > > > I personally believe that it's better to grow out of it early on.
> > >
> > > Better late than never, I'm hoping.
> >
> > Keep your gig though~!
> >
> > >
> > > > And there's this fascination with the Beats and Buk, and anyone who
> > > > appears is if the whole writing thing is just a drunken frat kegger.
> > > > I'll bet it would freak you out to know how many times Jack revised
> > > > *On the Road*.
> > >
> > > Well, Kerouac, unlike Buk, one of the few things I know pretty much
> > > inside and out. I'm still reading and re-reading the same biographies,
> > > the same books I was reading 30 years ago. I think it's you who
> > > constantly writes "Read some poetry".
> > >
> > > So, I know pretty much plenty about Kerouac, Ginsberg, Patti Smith,
> > > Corso, Jagger-Richards, Frank O'Hara, Jim Morrison, Bob Dylan, and
> > > I've read lots of Edgar Allen Poe and Rimbaud, even a good bit of
> > > Dylan Thomas, at least the parts I could make sense of. So, that can
> > > wait, obviously.
> >
> > But listen to the sounds.
> >
> > Speak it out loud, eh?
> >
> > > What I'd like to know, if you don't mind, is what poet would you name
> > > *right now* to read, *first*? Name the best of the best, or your
> > > favorite, and I swear I'll go out an find some... or simply Google
> > > him/her.

This question still remains, speaking of Usenet poetry FAQs.

> > There are obviously lots of link sites.
> >
> > Zidebar is one.
> >
> > AAPC site has a lot of good links.

And in the process of being cleaned?

> > > But I'm admitting that the beatnik/rock-n-roll/whatever street I've
> > > been on since [wow] 1973 or something is not enough. Nor is the Lord
> > > Byron swagger without actually knowing what he did when he wasn't
> > > swaggering, but writing.
> >
> > Good.
> >
> > > > Anyway, I do realize that (your sudden display of humility
> > > > notwithstanding) this is supposed to be All About You, but:
> > > >
> > > > I (me mine) went to *Grade and High School* in Atlanta in the 1970's
> > > > and came away with a lifelong love of Dylan Thomas, WCW, Eliot
> > > > and Tennessee Williams;
> > > > where the fuck did you go to school?
> > >
> > > Carver High School, down in Columbus. Atlanta, though not perfect, was
> > > light years ahead of Columbus back then, and even moreso now. I moved
> > > to Atlanta in Spring of 1980, with Kathy, which is where both sides of
> > > her family were located.
> > >
> > > Amazing difference in two cities so close by. I swore I'd never return
> > > here... but I did. I swore we'd return to beloved Atlanta soon... that
> > > was close to 20 years ago. I had to do a lot of catching up in the
> > > years I was there. I found that even the rednecks, roofers and hookers
> > > were better educated than me. I learned a lot, and if I'd stayed, I
> > > would have been *forced* to continue to learn... Shadowville was easy,
> > > safe, and I took a job in a mill.
> > >
> > > REM sang "Don't Go Back To Rockville"... but as usual, I didn't
> > > listen.
> > >
> > > > That's a rhetorical question, I don't really need to know.
> > > >
> > > > jesus fuck,
> > > > what if we went to the same school?
> > >
> > > Are you from the North East side of Atlanta?
> > > You could have very
> > > likely seen me walking Piedmont Road, Monroe Ave., Cheshire Bridge,
> > > Buford Highway...
> > >
> > > I know this is a pretty silly question, but did you know Wes Sprunger,
> > > Jag, Cliff? Those were great kids, haven't seen them in so many
> > > years... hope they're well.

And a decade later, questions remain.

> > > > > > > > > > > Sunglass.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > This battered old shell
> > > > > > > > > > > looks like a death mask.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Lucky or not I shall wear it
> > > > > > > > > > > as I walk into Phenix City.
> > > > > > > > > > > Though I cheated in my gambling
> > > > > > > > > > > I wound up broke anyway.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > And I come, and I pay
> > > > > > > > > > > the zombie whores and walking dead.
> > > > > > > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > One more trip over that bridge
> > > > > > > > > > > to the kissing booth.
> > > > > > > > > > > Where there's smoke there may be fire
> > > > > > > > > > > and this time I got burned.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I walk this beach at midnight
> > > > > > > > > > > like a zen dharma beach bum.
> > > > > > > > > > > And I am saved, and I turn.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
> > > > > > > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > -Will Dockery (c)2003

--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & The Shadowville All-Stars:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2012-12-05 08:30:40 UTC
Permalink
Hieronymous707 wrote:
>
> Who else have you met from Usenet, or anywhere for that matter, who's
>
> taken the time, made the effort, incurred the expense, and gone so far
>
> as I have to actually meet you face to face? I never got the sense
>
> that you ever appreciated that as a compliment.

I do appreciate you and your friendship, Corey... and I didn't intend to
"brag", just making a bit of self-awareness.

To answer your question about friends travelling to meet me, offhand I can
think of two, both dead now, and both missed very much.

Lynn Hansen, who I met through the underground comix-zines-small press mail
art scene of the 1980s, travelled from Idaho to visit me, and liked the Deep
South so much wound up moving to Birmingham in part so we could get together
more often. Lynn passed away in the 1990s, after falling into a diabetic
coma suddenly.

Rick Howe, also from the same small press/poetry chapbook scene, came on a
visit here, and never left... found a job in town, moved in with P.D. Wilson
and Carol Horn and stayed for almost a decade. Rick's sad death came in
Arkansas, of a stroke/heart attack.

There are others of similar and not lesser note, such as the hippie poet
chick who caused me to go out and rent my first P. O. Box, after I came home
one afternoon with my wife and two toddling children, to find her camped out
on my front porch... she'd read my poetry (a chapbook with my street address
listed in it) and decided that we were soul mates. That took a little fancy
footwork to manage, talk about a "Dockery Dance".

Interestingly, this address that Raine found in the chapbook and followed
right to my door, is the same old one in Phenix City Gamble has been posting
the link to here for the last day or so... possibly from the same ancient
source Raine found it at!

Anyway, this story could go on, but yes, it has happened.

But no, I don't take it for granted that you went the distance and we became
real life friends... sorry that you thought so, Corey.

--
Under The Radar / Will Dockery:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery/song/12609809
Will Dockery
2013-02-23 03:52:40 UTC
Permalink
(From the archives, shelved for some reason, but a worthy piece of writing,
imo):

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> "Will Dockery" wrote:
>> Hieronymous707 wrote:
>
> > > LOL. You've always been your favorite subject, Will.
>
> > You watch my television show, though.
>
> > Do you agree that I manage to almost always keep the subject on the life
> > and
>
> > art of my interview subjects?
>
> > I have to say I consider that a feather in my cap...
>
> LOL. OMG! Will, look at what you wrote. Again you compliment yourself.
>
> Don't you find people who feel the constant need to compliment
>
> themselves annoying? No matter how good they really are, they're never
>
> quite as good as they say they are. Plus, it's really hard to
>
> compliment someone who's always complimenting themselves because they
>
> never seem to appreciate the compliment. Take me, for example. Who
>
> else have you met from Usenet, or anywhere for that matter, who's
>
> taken the time, made the effort, incurred the expense, and gone so far
>
> as I have to actually meet you face to face? I never got the sense
>
> that you ever appreciated that as a compliment. I feel like just
>
> another feather in your cap. Sorry. Nothing personal.

I do appreciate you and your friendship, Corey... and I didn't intend to
"brag", just making a bit of self-awareness.

To answer your question about friends travelling to meet me, offhand I can
think of two, both dead now, and both missed very much.

Lynn Hansen, who I met through the underground comix-zines-small press mail
art scene of the 1980s, travelled from Idaho to visit me, and liked the Deep
South so much wound up moving to Birmingham in part so we could get together
more often. Lynn passed away in the 1990s, after falling into a diabetic
coma suddenly.

Rick Howe, also from the same small press/poetry chapbook scene, came on a
visit here, and never left... found a job in town, moved in with P.D. Wilson
and Carol Horn and stayed for almost a decade. Rick's sad death came in
Arkansas, of a stroke/heart attack.

(Note: Footage from this era has surfaced, soon to be released)

There are others of similar and not lesser note, such as the hippie poet
chick who caused me to go out and rent my first P. O. Box, after I came home
one afternoon with my wife and two toddling children, to find her camped out
on my front porch... she'd read my poetry (a chapbook with my street address
listed in it) and decided that we were soul mates. That took a little fancy
footwork to manage, talk about a "Dockery Dance".

Interestingly, this address that Raine found in the chapbook and followed
right to my door, is the same old one in Phenix City that ggamble has been
posting
the link to here for the last day or so... possibly from the same ancient
source Raine found it at!

Anyway, this story could go on, but yes, it has happened.

But no, I don't take it for granted that you went the distance and we became
real life friends... sorry that you thought so, Corey.

--
Will Dockery & Friends" at Hogbottom:
http://youtu.be/EBpnUOepRZg
Will Dockery
2004-06-13 21:05:48 UTC
Permalink
"Tom Bishop" wrote:

> "Renay St. James", remarked:
> >
> > "Will Dockery" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:***@posting.google.com...
> > > "Renay St. James" <***@prettyprettyprincess.com> wrote
> > >
> > > > > > > > Sunglass.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This battered old shell
> > > > > > > > looks like a death mask.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Lucky or not I shall wear it
> > > > > > > > as I walk into Phenix City.
> > > > > > > > Though I cheated in my gambling
> > > > > > > > I wound up broke anyway.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And I come, and I pay
> > > > > > > > the zombie whores and walking dead.
> > > > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > One more trip over that bridge
> > > > > > > > to the kissing booth.
> > > > > > > > Where there's smoke there may be fire
> > > > > > > > and this time I got burned.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I walk this beach at midnight
> > > > > > > > like a zen dharma beach bum.
> > > > > > > > And I am saved, and I turn.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
> > > > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -Will Dockery (c)2003
> > >
> > > > > "Getting into it" is not how I'd describe it. But I *will* defend
> > myself.
> > > >
> > > > against WHAT? people who try to pat you on the head
> > > > like all you are is a photograph without a brain? mindless
> > > > insults about sucking up and sucking cock? I see.
> > >
> > > Yeah, on this sober Sunday I feel I went too far with the "cock
> > > sucking" comments to JJWeb [Blue]. I keep reminding myself to take it
> > > easy and not get too deep in the flame games stuff... I'll track him
> > > down and give him an apology.
> >
> > you're gonna apologize to him for saying I suck his cock?
> > fuck you, Will.

I didn't realise I had *you* giving JJW a blow job... I suppose that's
what "sucking up" means, basically, though. I have to remind you that
*you* had *me* doing this to him *if* I only knew what an important
person he was... all I can say is I'm sorry. Can you forgive me?

Not to be rude, but the image of you having sex with him is much more
pleasant than the image of me that you created... please Cook, don't
do it!!!

And on to the subject I'm most interested in... if you wouldn't mind
answering a couple of questions that will greatly help me in my intent
to write a few poems that ya'll won't find as wretched as my previous
poetry:

1) Who would you consider to be the very *first* poet on a reading
list for a country bumpkin like me? The toppermost of the poppermost,
in other words?

2} Colin Ward has passed some great suggestions for poetry
introductions for me in another post--- but there are so *many*! Which
would *you* consider the *first* for me to begin my, perhaps
impossible, task?

Anyone who can offer answers to the two questions above would be
greatly appreciated... remember, it would be a chance to make this
newsgroup better to help me improve... since I'm obviously here for
the long haul, and I do consider myself a poet for life. Thanks,
Renay, and all of ya'll...

> Has it cum to that?
>
> > Renay
> >
> >
> > > On this sober Sunday, I realise that I jumped in too far, in ager,
> > > because of all the comments here, his hit home closest, hit a nerve,
> > > so to speak.
> > >
> > > Money *has* always been tight, I've never really made what might be
> > > considered "great" money, decent jobs over the years, for Shadowville,
> > > but nothing spectacular. And certainly not from poetry.
> > >
> > > Add to that the *fact* that outside of Shadowville [which even here I
> > > can't, or won't, make any noticable $$$ from the words/music/art]
> > > relatively few people know me as a poet... and here, in many quarters,
> > > I'm more infamous than famous... the underground types all know me,
> > > artists, musicians, as well as the *sleazier* elements, and strangely,
> > > the "academic" types never jeer or heckle me, but they probably like
> > > me personally well enough to ignore my poems when I flub up some
> > > verses... and point out "good" lines... some probably admire my rough
> > > edged, "self taught" style:
> > >
> > > I *did* make it this far, as short a distance it arguably is, against
> > > pretty much impossible odds. Grade and High School here in the 1970s
> > > for whatever reason seemed intent on smashing this "poetry" idea I
> > > had, for probably exactly the reasons most of you hate me: I did it on
> > > my own, and didn't [don't] tend to listen to "sage advice"... there's
> > > no "literary" background in my family, really, and my mother and
> > > uncles [mother's side] were the first people in my family to go to
> > > college, though I suppose some Dockerys or Whitleys [or Lawsons or
> > > Darlymples] may have attended college hundreds of years ago in the
> > > "old country"... the Creek, Cherokee, Choctaw, et cetera, of course,
> > > had a very different system of higher learning... both sides of my
> > > family are very typical Southern families, comfortable, but never
> > > "rich".
> > >
> > > And it's true I've dropped out of college... *three* times. It's true
> > > that I never had that "drive" to amass grand amounts of money and
> > > material things... the conceit [sic?] is: I'm a poet, and not
> > > concerned with material things. I make enough money to "get by"... the
> > > wives and countless women I've loved and lost would agree more with
> > > the judgement of the newsgroup trolls: I'm a lazy sod.
> > >
> > > I like to brag that one of the great things about being a "povert
> > > stricken poet" is that I know a woman loves me for *me*, not my money.
> > > *grin*
> > >
> > > But, yeah, it hurts when they give up and drift away. Sometimes due to
> > > "incredible" hardships I put them through, lack of money, security, et
> > > cetera, sometimes because I'd rather run around with my cronies of the
> > > season, playing at being a poet, getting pats on the back for being
> > > "Will Dockery, outlaw poet of Shadowville", sometimes because I get
> > > blinded by the cheap thrills of playing the hard drinking groupie
> > > shagger, and time after time expect the "little lady" to be sitting
> > > happily at home, waiting for "Neal Cassady" to drive up and light up
> > > her life... although the power's turned off and she might be sitting
> > > by a fireplace, reading his poetry by candle light. A romantic notion,
> > > unless you have *no choice*, Dark Queen and I both agreed, some years
> > > after we gave it up. She went back home to her mother, and I went off
> > > to "fame" with a group of Phish/Deadheads...
> > >
> > > Anyhow, before I went off into this Kerouac chapter, on this Sober
> > > Sunday, is that yes, yes, yes, after years of flaming and
> > > grandstanding, I admit that Renay, Colin, Tom, and several others here
> > > are right in much of what they write: my poetry could *at least* stand
> > > some rewrite, some "distance". My Kerouac et al "never change a word"
> > > "philosophy" boils down, at least partially, to being a lazy sod.
> > > Content to dash out some "poems" and rely on performance and flashy
> > > "beatnik" presentation to score.
> > >
> > > And that doesn't go over like Flint on a text based medium, with
> > > people that *have* sweated and studied the "craft".
> > >
> > > Anyhow, this began as an apology to Blue [JJWeb] for losing my temper
> > > at the blunt points he made, points that actually are intended to help
> > > me. Calling him a "cocksucker" was low... and hypocritically, I'd
> > > probably blast a troll with high handed insults if *they* sank to that
> > > level. Cool as I *am*, there's obviously a deep undercurrent of
> > > homophobia [or *shudder* is it lantent homosexuality?] in that knee
> > > jerk insult.
> > >
> > > And I'm surprised that nobody's called me on my strange mixture of
> > > goddess worship and misogyny. Nita Gale
> > > <http://midgetbigot.easyjournal.com/> was the *only* person who had
> > > the balls to call me on that, she used to love me, but obviously gave
> > > up on me years ago, as well.
> > >
> > > So, I'm seriously considering consulting Colin on the idea of giving
> > > me some poetry tutorial, as he [maybe joking, but interesting, anyhow]
> > > wrote on one of these threads: "The difference between [poetry
> > > craftwork] and a bad acid trip." I really want to learn the
> > > difference, since quite a bit of LSD, as well as weed and of course
> > > booze has gone down the hatch over the years... though lately it's
> > > almost always booze--- which for years I always said it was impossible
> > > for me to write [even my meager poetry] while drunk.
> > >
> > > Ah, well, enough for now... it's time to go out and play "pizza
> > > delivery technician" and my current absurd "advertising exectutive"
> > > gig [Hey! I *do* get out there and meet, greet, and get the phones
> > > ringing... whatever I'm doing with the flyers and promotion is selling
> > > pizza like never before. Pizza Roma has hired coupon passers for 15
> > > years, and Ben swears he's *never* had results like those I bring...
> > > sorry, the insecurity blleds through, who but *Will Dockery* would
> > > "brag" before, as Google announces, "potentially millions of readers"
> > > about being a pizza boy/coupon passer... *but* Shadowville is the "big
> > > fish small pond" archtype in a classic sense... could I make it in New
> > > York, Hollywood? I did well enough in Atlanta, but honestly Atlanta is
> > > pretty much just an overgrown Shadowville.][Get this, it's very easy
> > > to swell with pride when I hear things like the other day outside
> > > Pizza Roma as I stood with Pasko, Ben, Brando, Carol, and Woodstock
> > > Eddy having a joint, and i said, "Well my loves, it's off to my
> > > *advertising executive* coupon passing gig..." and Carol corrected me:
> > > "Your a poet." and of course I agreed.] and eventually I'll have to,
> > > as Blue pointed out: put up or shut up, or remain Poet Lawrry-ette of
> > > Shadowville.
> > >
> > > I still think JRSherman's wrong, though: it *is* poetry.
> > > Will
Tom Bishop
2004-06-13 22:06:53 UTC
Permalink
"Will Dockery", remarked:
> "Tom Bishop" wrote:
>
> > "Renay St. James", remarked:
> > >
> > > "Will Dockery" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:***@posting.google.com...
> > > > "Renay St. James" <***@prettyprettyprincess.com> wrote
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > Sunglass.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This battered old shell
> > > > > > > > > looks like a death mask.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Lucky or not I shall wear it
> > > > > > > > > as I walk into Phenix City.
> > > > > > > > > Though I cheated in my gambling
> > > > > > > > > I wound up broke anyway.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And I come, and I pay
> > > > > > > > > the zombie whores and walking dead.
> > > > > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > One more trip over that bridge
> > > > > > > > > to the kissing booth.
> > > > > > > > > Where there's smoke there may be fire
> > > > > > > > > and this time I got burned.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I walk this beach at midnight
> > > > > > > > > like a zen dharma beach bum.
> > > > > > > > > And I am saved, and I turn.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I watch the drunken poets, and my lawyer.
> > > > > > > > > While the dark lady in sunglasses
> > > > > > > > > takes the halo from his clay head.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -Will Dockery (c)2003
> > > >
> > > > > > "Getting into it" is not how I'd describe it. But I *will* defend
> > > myself.
> > > > >
> > > > > against WHAT? people who try to pat you on the head
> > > > > like all you are is a photograph without a brain? mindless
> > > > > insults about sucking up and sucking cock? I see.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, on this sober Sunday I feel I went too far with the "cock
> > > > sucking" comments to JJWeb [Blue]. I keep reminding myself to take it
> > > > easy and not get too deep in the flame games stuff... I'll track him
> > > > down and give him an apology.
> > >
> > > you're gonna apologize to him for saying I suck his cock?
> > > fuck you, Will.
>
> I didn't realise I had *you* giving JJW a blow job... I suppose that's
> what "sucking up" means, basically, though. I have to remind you that
> *you* had *me* doing this to him *if* I only knew what an important
> person he was... all I can say is I'm sorry. Can you forgive me?
>
> Not to be rude, but the image of you having sex with him is much more
> pleasant than the image of me that you created... please Cook, don't
> do it!!!
>
> And on to the subject I'm most interested in... if you wouldn't mind
> answering a couple of questions that will greatly help me in my intent
> to write a few poems that ya'll won't find as wretched as my previous
> poetry:
>
> 1) Who would you consider to be the very *first* poet on a reading
> list for a country bumpkin like me? The toppermost of the poppermost,
> in other words?

ee cummings, dylan thomas, frost use simple language.
http://plagiarist.com has a lot of it.


>
> 2} Colin Ward has passed some great suggestions for poetry
> introductions for me in another post--- but there are so *many*! Which
> would *you* consider the *first* for me to begin my, perhaps
> impossible, task?
>
> Anyone who can offer answers to the two questions above would be
> greatly appreciated... remember, it would be a chance to make this
> newsgroup better to help me improve... since I'm obviously here for
> the long haul, and I do consider myself a poet for life. Thanks,
> Renay, and all of ya'll...

how can anyone possibly have a problem with that?




>
> > Has it cum to that?
> >
> > > Renay
> > >
> > >
> > > > On this sober Sunday, I realise that I jumped in too far, in ager,
> > > > because of all the comments here, his hit home closest, hit a nerve,
> > > > so to speak.
> > > >
> > > > Money *has* always been tight, I've never really made what might be
> > > > considered "great" money, decent jobs over the years, for Shadowville,
> > > > but nothing spectacular. And certainly not from poetry.
> > > >
> > > > Add to that the *fact* that outside of Shadowville [which even here I
> > > > can't, or won't, make any noticable $$$ from the words/music/art]
> > > > relatively few people know me as a poet... and here, in many quarters,
> > > > I'm more infamous than famous... the underground types all know me,
> > > > artists, musicians, as well as the *sleazier* elements, and strangely,
> > > > the "academic" types never jeer or heckle me, but they probably like
> > > > me personally well enough to ignore my poems when I flub up some
> > > > verses... and point out "good" lines... some probably admire my rough
> > > > edged, "self taught" style:
> > > >
> > > > I *did* make it this far, as short a distance it arguably is, against
> > > > pretty much impossible odds. Grade and High School here in the 1970s
> > > > for whatever reason seemed intent on smashing this "poetry" idea I
> > > > had, for probably exactly the reasons most of you hate me: I did it on
> > > > my own, and didn't [don't] tend to listen to "sage advice"... there's
> > > > no "literary" background in my family, really, and my mother and
> > > > uncles [mother's side] were the first people in my family to go to
> > > > college, though I suppose some Dockerys or Whitleys [or Lawsons or
> > > > Darlymples] may have attended college hundreds of years ago in the
> > > > "old country"... the Creek, Cherokee, Choctaw, et cetera, of course,
> > > > had a very different system of higher learning... both sides of my
> > > > family are very typical Southern families, comfortable, but never
> > > > "rich".
> > > >
> > > > And it's true I've dropped out of college... *three* times. It's true
> > > > that I never had that "drive" to amass grand amounts of money and
> > > > material things... the conceit [sic?] is: I'm a poet, and not
> > > > concerned with material things. I make enough money to "get by"... the
> > > > wives and countless women I've loved and lost would agree more with
> > > > the judgement of the newsgroup trolls: I'm a lazy sod.
> > > >
> > > > I like to brag that one of the great things about being a "povert
> > > > stricken poet" is that I know a woman loves me for *me*, not my money.
> > > > *grin*
> > > >
> > > > But, yeah, it hurts when they give up and drift away. Sometimes due to
> > > > "incredible" hardships I put them through, lack of money, security, et
> > > > cetera, sometimes because I'd rather run around with my cronies of the
> > > > season, playing at being a poet, getting pats on the back for being
> > > > "Will Dockery, outlaw poet of Shadowville", sometimes because I get
> > > > blinded by the cheap thrills of playing the hard drinking groupie
> > > > shagger, and time after time expect the "little lady" to be sitting
> > > > happily at home, waiting for "Neal Cassady" to drive up and light up
> > > > her life... although the power's turned off and she might be sitting
> > > > by a fireplace, reading his poetry by candle light. A romantic notion,
> > > > unless you have *no choice*, Dark Queen and I both agreed, some years
> > > > after we gave it up. She went back home to her mother, and I went off
> > > > to "fame" with a group of Phish/Deadheads...
> > > >
> > > > Anyhow, before I went off into this Kerouac chapter, on this Sober
> > > > Sunday, is that yes, yes, yes, after years of flaming and
> > > > grandstanding, I admit that Renay, Colin, Tom, and several others here
> > > > are right in much of what they write: my poetry could *at least* stand
> > > > some rewrite, some "distance". My Kerouac et al "never change a word"
> > > > "philosophy" boils down, at least partially, to being a lazy sod.
> > > > Content to dash out some "poems" and rely on performance and flashy
> > > > "beatnik" presentation to score.
> > > >
> > > > And that doesn't go over like Flint on a text based medium, with
> > > > people that *have* sweated and studied the "craft".
> > > >
> > > > Anyhow, this began as an apology to Blue [JJWeb] for losing my temper
> > > > at the blunt points he made, points that actually are intended to help
> > > > me. Calling him a "cocksucker" was low... and hypocritically, I'd
> > > > probably blast a troll with high handed insults if *they* sank to that
> > > > level. Cool as I *am*, there's obviously a deep undercurrent of
> > > > homophobia [or *shudder* is it lantent homosexuality?] in that knee
> > > > jerk insult.
> > > >
> > > > And I'm surprised that nobody's called me on my strange mixture of
> > > > goddess worship and misogyny. Nita Gale
> > > > <http://midgetbigot.easyjournal.com/> was the *only* person who had
> > > > the balls to call me on that, she used to love me, but obviously gave
> > > > up on me years ago, as well.
> > > >
> > > > So, I'm seriously considering consulting Colin on the idea of giving
> > > > me some poetry tutorial, as he [maybe joking, but interesting, anyhow]
> > > > wrote on one of these threads: "The difference between [poetry
> > > > craftwork] and a bad acid trip." I really want to learn the
> > > > difference, since quite a bit of LSD, as well as weed and of course
> > > > booze has gone down the hatch over the years... though lately it's
> > > > almost always booze--- which for years I always said it was impossible
> > > > for me to write [even my meager poetry] while drunk.
> > > >
> > > > Ah, well, enough for now... it's time to go out and play "pizza
> > > > delivery technician" and my current absurd "advertising exectutive"
> > > > gig [Hey! I *do* get out there and meet, greet, and get the phones
> > > > ringing... whatever I'm doing with the flyers and promotion is selling
> > > > pizza like never before. Pizza Roma has hired coupon passers for 15
> > > > years, and Ben swears he's *never* had results like those I bring...
> > > > sorry, the insecurity blleds through, who but *Will Dockery* would
> > > > "brag" before, as Google announces, "potentially millions of readers"
> > > > about being a pizza boy/coupon passer... *but* Shadowville is the "big
> > > > fish small pond" archtype in a classic sense... could I make it in New
> > > > York, Hollywood? I did well enough in Atlanta, but honestly Atlanta is
> > > > pretty much just an overgrown Shadowville.][Get this, it's very easy
> > > > to swell with pride when I hear things like the other day outside
> > > > Pizza Roma as I stood with Pasko, Ben, Brando, Carol, and Woodstock
> > > > Eddy having a joint, and i said, "Well my loves, it's off to my
> > > > *advertising executive* coupon passing gig..." and Carol corrected me:
> > > > "Your a poet." and of course I agreed.] and eventually I'll have to,
> > > > as Blue pointed out: put up or shut up, or remain Poet Lawrry-ette of
> > > > Shadowville.
> > > >
> > > > I still think JRSherman's wrong, though: it *is* poetry.
> > > > Will
>
Renay St. James
2004-06-14 01:54:45 UTC
Permalink
"Will Dockery" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:***@posting.google.com...

> > > you're gonna apologize to him for saying I suck his cock?
> > > fuck you, Will.
>
> I didn't realise I had *you* giving JJW a blow job... I suppose that's
> what "sucking up" means, basically, though. I have to remind you that
> *you* had *me* doing this to him *if* I only knew what an important
> person he was... all I can say is I'm sorry. Can you forgive me?

my bad. I stand corrected. what you said was,
"Renay sucks up to a shallow pompous ass like
you... maybe you've got a big cock."

> And on to the subject I'm most interested in... if you wouldn't mind
> answering a couple of questions that will greatly help me in my intent
> to write a few poems that ya'll won't find as wretched as my previous
> poetry:
>
> 1) Who would you consider to be the very *first* poet on a reading
> list for a country bumpkin like me? The toppermost of the poppermost,
> in other words?

as if. FIRST? old or new? read everything. decide what's good...and
figure out WHY.

my list will me different from anyone else's. ask me how much I
adore Plath. no, don't bother. can't stand most of what she wrote.
you'll prolly hear Sherman Alexie. politically incorrect as it may
be, I think he's a pompous axe-grinding ass who understands
marketing. read the names you've seen here already (the "biggies")
then read Bert Glick, Sharon Olds, Judy Blunt, Gregg Keeler, Patchen,
Sandra Cisneros, Alex Comfort (oh shush!) etc.
>
> 2} Colin Ward has passed some great suggestions for poetry
> introductions for me in another post--- but there are so *many*! Which
> would *you* consider the *first* for me to begin my, perhaps
> impossible, task?
>
> Anyone who can offer answers to the two questions above would be
> greatly appreciated... remember, it would be a chance to make this
> newsgroup better to help me improve... since I'm obviously here for
> the long haul, and I do consider myself a poet for life. Thanks,
> Renay, and all of ya'll...

oh yeah. I'm a fucken hero. hera. ha. ha.

perhaps you'd consider writing just as often and just as much then
tossing the better part of it out. no, that's not Will-tailored advice.
it's just about everyone advice. wait! don't toss the *better* part of
it out. toss the majority of it. keep the *better* part! that's pretty much
the point, isn't it?

Renay
Dennis M. Hammes
2004-06-14 04:57:38 UTC
Permalink
"Renay St. James" wrote:
>
> "Will Dockery" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
...
> >
> > 1) Who would you consider to be the very *first* poet on a reading
> > list for a country bumpkin like me? The toppermost of the poppermost,
> > in other words?
>
> as if. FIRST? old or new? read everything. decide what's good...and
> figure out WHY.
>
> my list will me different from anyone else's. ask me how much I
> adore Plath. no, don't bother. can't stand most of what she wrote.
...
>
> Renay

Etc. and What She Said. No one poet has what you need, and if you
read only one, you can't separate his techniques from his style;
you'll /parrot/ him.
Anthologies are where it's at for the purpose, and the first is
/The Norton Anthology of English Verse/. Ahead even of the
/...American.../.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
The most essential gift for a good writer is
a built-in, shock-proof, shit detector. -- Hemingway
http://scrawlmark.org
Will Dockery
2017-04-01 23:39:29 UTC
Permalink
"Samsung Experience" wrote in message
news:2a63d166-e630-4c48-95e2-***@googlegroups.com...
>
> Renay is such a hottie...

She was pretty cool and a fairly good poet, I wonder whatever happened with
her?
Will Dockery
2017-11-02 06:38:46 UTC
Permalink
"Samsung Experience" wrote in message
news:2a63d166-e630-4c48-95e2-***@googlegroups.com...
>
> Renay is such a hottie...

Twenty years ago I would have agreed... who knows, now?
Will Dockery
2012-11-19 04:28:28 UTC
Permalink
"ggamble" wrote:
>
> So, heh, if I don't show you a photo of my family

No reason for that, just crawl back into the woodwork... heh.

--
Music & Poetry of Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2012-11-20 05:13:41 UTC
Permalink
"ggamble" ***@lying-stalker.net wrote:
>
> I'm pretty sure that's far enough away that cable access southeastern
> alabama is not available on their local cable.

That's where the wonders of the modern age and YouTube come in handy.

--
Gone Too Far / Will Dockery
http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_11596860
Will Dockery
2012-11-20 06:03:06 UTC
Permalink
"ggamble" bitter-***@lying-obsesso.net wrote:
>
> "...Your a sad old f**k, and I hope
> someone will shoot you soon. The world will be a better place if that
> happens." -M.H.Benders

Well, "flame wars happen", but after the dust settled and a truce was
formed, I created some good material in collaboration with Benders:

http://www.photography-forums.com/autograph-zorro-dockery-conley-benders-t97189p4.html

"...In my opinion Will Dockery is easily one of the most authentic American
poets around. A real coffeehouse poet who is not scared of mingling some
real American elements such as country music into his
poetry. Whileas you just try to appear as European as possible with all your
sucking up to 80 year old European surrealists." -M.H.Benders

> You even posted a video

Well, of course the heyday of the "Zorro" experiment is captured and
archived, creative and fun times indeed:

http://youtu.be/G64jUD1tRRA

Zorro recorded at the old SoHo bar in 2005 for the Shadowville-Netherlands
cross cultural exchange project.

Will Dockery- vocals
Henry Conley- guitar
Robert Earl Lowery- bass
Rick Edwards- mandolin
Jocelyn Lammons- backing vocals
Will Dockery
2012-12-20 21:08:03 UTC
Permalink
On Thursday, December 20, 2012 3:42:53 PM UTC-5, ggamble wrote:
> On 19-Dec-2012, wrote:
>
> > the fact that I've published

Well, I've been writing for a newspaper, Playgrounds Magazine, for decades
now.

And what have you done?

I've been writing a monthly column since 1998 (14 years?) and publishing
poetry as often since 1995 in Playgrounds Magazine:

http://www.playgroundsmag.com

That's thousands of printed copies per month, every day of every month, for
almost two decades... so
what have you done, my anonymous friend?

Where have you published, and please cite references and/or link to the
publication?

Or snip this again while you evade the question... heh.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
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